From: Ville Voipio 
Newsgroups: sfnet.harrastus.elektroniikka
Subject: Re: Valaistusta =?iso-8859-1?Q?sinisill=E4=20ledeill=E4?=
Date: 21 Dec 2000 14:26:49 +0200
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
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Sami Vastela  writes:

> Kuitu olisi kylla yksi hyva vaihtoehto, mutta kuitu setit on vaan niin pirun
> kalliita. Mistahan loytyisi ko. tarkoitukseen sopivaa kuitua metritavarana?

Nyt tuli paha. Farnell joskus myi kohtuuhintaan millin muovikuitua
metritavarana, mutta sekin taitaa olla jo mennytt� aikaa.

Mieleen kuitenkin juolahti viel� yksi todenn�k�isesti toimiva tapa
tehd� tuo pistevalaistus. Tee saunan kattoon ylim��r�inen v�likatto.
Joudut sen tekem��n joka tapauksessa ledej� tai kuituakin varten.
Sisusta kattojen v�liin j��v� muutaman sentin korkuinen tila (mit�
korkeampi, sit� parempi) valkoisella levyll�. Mit� valkoisempi, sit�
parempi, mutta todenn�k�isesti jo tavallinen valkoinen maali riitt��
(olettaen, ett� sen saa pysym��n valkoisena korkeassa l�mp�tilassa,
lateksi ei v�ltt�m�tt� kest�).

Alempaan levyyn voit sitten porata reiki� sopivaan t�htitaivasmuodos-
telmaan tahi muuhun. Lamput pit�� sijoittaa mielell��n valkoisen kotelon
reunoille. Siit� kannattaa pit�� huoli, ett� kaikki mahdolliset pinnat
ovat valkoisia. Ter�v�t kulmat voisi my�s yritt�� kitata py�reiksi.

Idea t�ss� systeemiss� on vanha integroivan pallon idea. Kun valo osuu
hyv��n valkoiseen pintaan, se poukkoilee siit� kaikkiin suuntiin. Jos
pinta on kunnolla valkoinen, valosta vain eritt�in pieni osa absorboi-
tuu. Niinp� l�hes kaikki pinnalle tulleet fotonit jatkavat matkaansa
valkoisen laatikon sis�ll�. Aina joskus fotoneita eksyy laatikon
rei'ist� ulos valaisemaan saunaa, loput heijastuvat jatkamaan matkaansa,
kunnes joko absorboituvat sein��n tai p��sev�t rei�st� ulos.

T�ss� konstruktiossa on eritt�in t�rke��, ett� pinta on hyvin valkoinen.
Jo pienikin s�vytys johonkin muuhun suuntaan riitt�� tappamaan heijastuk-
set tehokkaasti. Lis�ksi tuosta laatikosta kannattaa eliminoida kaikki
mahdollinen tumma materiaali (vaikkapa s�hk�johdot), koska jo pienikin
tummuus n�kyy lopputuloksessa melkoisesti. Kannattaa muistaa, ett� 
yksitt�isen fotonin matkalla laatikosta saunaan voi olla satoja heijastuksia. 

Optiikan puolella k�ytet��n aika paljon bariumsulfaattimaalia, mutta 
sen saatavuus voi olla heikkoa. (BaSO4 on ihan yht� myrkyt�nt� kuin 
TiO2, jota yleens� k�ytet��n pigmenttin�. TiO2 on ilmeisesti kuitenkin 
halvempaa.)

- Ville

-- 
Ville Voipio, M.Sc. (EE)


From: "Eero Alkkiom�ki" 
Newsgroups: sfnet.harrastus.elektroniikka
Subject: Re: Valaistusta sinisill� ledeill�
Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 17:47:32 +0200
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"Ville Voipio"  kirjoitti viestiss�
news:[email protected]...

> Nyt tuli paha. Farnell joskus myi kohtuuhintaan millin muovikuitua
> metritavarana, mutta sekin taitaa olla jo mennytt� aikaa.

Elfalta saa metrihintaan halkaisijaltaan 0.25-2.0 mm muovikuitua. Hinnat
4.45-36.00 SEK/metri.

EA



From: Mike Walker 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Special Effect for a Speech Night
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 10:15:50 -0400
Organization: Queen's University, Kingston
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On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:08:10 +1000, "Lindsay Robinson"
 wrote:

>Hi there,
>
>I am interested to hear if anyone has a suggestion for a low cost but
>effective idea to just make the lighting for a speech night/awards night
>just a little more interesting. It is not ment to be flash lighting but i
>just wanted to see if anyone had an idea of a fairly subtle effect that
>would just give it that little extra without being overpowering. It is a
>very low cost event.

Very much dependent on what you have available for positions and
fixtures but a few thoughts: 

-Keep the front wash a bit warm 
-It would appear to be a classy event so anything bright, flashing, or
moving would probably look out of place but it seems you've already
gathered that
-One of my favorite tricks to add a bit of depth to a siple design is
to do something with the background, hopefully you have a nice set of
curtains or somethingin the background but if not Ive even done this
with a white brick wall, some subtle areas of an appropriately
contrasting colour in some kind of symmetic pattern usually looks
good.  Keep in mind to keep these low though as people will want to
take good pictures, in fact if you get a chance use a digital camera
and a standin to check which light levels will be easily
photagraphable by balancing the light on the back with the light on
the people.  The same idea of large soft focused washes of colour can
also be extended into the house if you have the resources but really
the lighting probably wont be part of the show for an event like this
unless you have access to a very large assortment of lighting (read:
like the Tony's) where they can use a exorbinant amount of fixtures to
do subtle and classy.
- The focus of the whole above point is to seperate the people from
the background a white front wash just don't look good but with a few
fixtures these are some simple tricks to seperate them...A good high
light, or even a slight back light on the presenting area will also do
a bit to brinng the focus to the people on stage. 

Take it for what its worth...

Mike Walker
Kingston, ON, Canada                    
mwalker_mw_at_hotmail.com
(replace _at_ with @)

From: "Lindsay Robinson" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Special Effect for a Speech Night
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 08:44:43 +1000
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Many Thanks Mike,

I think i was basically on a similar idea to you. The idea i had, was to use
the back cyc to provide the majority of the color to the evening. I am going
to hire 4 x 3cell IRIS cyc units that will provide a basis for me to add
color. I was thinking something like a really slow fade(10minutes) between
background colors might be subtle yet effective. We dont have alot of
fixtures to use you are right and so we will use what we have, the Lighting
bars really arent in good positions either so we just work round everything
and see how we go. The other idea i had was using some sort of breakup gobo
on the stage as well, just to breakup the stage abit.

Once again thanks for your help

Lindsay Robinson

.
"Mike Walker"  wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:08:10 +1000, "Lindsay Robinson"
>  wrote:
>
> >Hi there,
> >
> >I am interested to hear if anyone has a suggestion for a low cost but
> >effective idea to just make the lighting for a speech night/awards night
> >just a little more interesting. It is not ment to be flash lighting but i
> >just wanted to see if anyone had an idea of a fairly subtle effect that
> >would just give it that little extra without being overpowering. It is a
> >very low cost event.
>
> Very much dependent on what you have available for positions and
> fixtures but a few thoughts:
>
> -Keep the front wash a bit warm
> -It would appear to be a classy event so anything bright, flashing, or
> moving would probably look out of place but it seems you've already
> gathered that
> -One of my favorite tricks to add a bit of depth to a siple design is
> to do something with the background, hopefully you have a nice set of
> curtains or somethingin the background but if not Ive even done this
> with a white brick wall, some subtle areas of an appropriately
> contrasting colour in some kind of symmetic pattern usually looks
> good.  Keep in mind to keep these low though as people will want to
> take good pictures, in fact if you get a chance use a digital camera
> and a standin to check which light levels will be easily
> photagraphable by balancing the light on the back with the light on
> the people.  The same idea of large soft focused washes of colour can
> also be extended into the house if you have the resources but really
> the lighting probably wont be part of the show for an event like this
> unless you have access to a very large assortment of lighting (read:
> like the Tony's) where they can use a exorbinant amount of fixtures to
> do subtle and classy.
> - The focus of the whole above point is to seperate the people from
> the background a white front wash just don't look good but with a few
> fixtures these are some simple tricks to seperate them...A good high
> light, or even a slight back light on the presenting area will also do
> a bit to brinng the focus to the people on stage.
>
> Take it for what its worth...
>
> Mike Walker
> Kingston, ON, Canada
> mwalker_mw_at_hotmail.com
> (replace _at_ with @)



From: [email protected] ([email protected])
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Special Effect for a Speech Night
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 00:54:09 GMT
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
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On Tue, 15 Oct 2002 20:08:10 +1000, "Lindsay Robinson"
 wrote:

>Hi there,
>
>I am interested to hear if anyone has a suggestion for a low cost but
>effective idea to just make the lighting for a speech night/awards night
>just a little more interesting. It is not ment to be flash lighting but i
>just wanted to see if anyone had an idea of a fairly subtle effect that
>would just give it that little extra without being overpowering. It is a
>very low cost event.

mmmm...a blurred gobo or two cross shot from the sides if possible in
subtle colors to the rear cyc color would help to add a little
something. Maybe some uplight cans inbetween cells in a contrast
color....depends on how up the ladder these folks are. When I've done
poetry reading lighting the effect was usually warm, not too "bright"
in intensity and soft color washes in the rear. No flash & trash or
too much in the way of changes during the event, just attempts at
making things as elegant and as cozy as possible was my approach...
Folks came to see the person speaking--not a light show. Depending on
your surroundings in your a space--build from there would be my
suggestion and think simple colors, subtle breakups and static looks.

that would be my suggestion... good luck. =)

wolfie


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X-Admin: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Frank Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Date: 06 Dec 2002 12:37:48 GMT
Organization: AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk
Subject: Re: Studio Lighting
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

>Since my Girlfriend has a PhD in physics,(1999) if you will explain what
>law of physics a continuous spectral output from a fluorescent tube
>violates, I will have her post the reasons you are right, if you are. 

A common fluorescent tube is based on a mercury vapour discharge. This has
prominent spectral lines in the green, blue, and UV. The phosphor coating
converts the UV to a simulation of a continuous spectrum, according to
precisely what mix is used. Hence warm white, cold white, and all the other
variations. But the green and blue are still there.

Looking at emission graphs, the lines are at 365, 405, 436, 546, and 578 nm.
Even the 'colour matching' lamps still show prominent peaks at 436 and 546nm. 


Frank Wood
[email protected]



From: "Ynot" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Rain effect
Date: Tue, 28 Jan 2003 01:02:28 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: BT Openworld
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"Anotomus101"  wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> I am desighning the lighting plot for a show that requires a rain
> effect for all but 5 minutes of the show. i am puzzled about how to do
> this. a gobo rotator will create a swirling effect, not a sliding
> one(like rain). are there any products that can create this effect, or
> shoudl i just tell the director that all i can do is a special with a
> rain gobo and sound effect?
>
> thank you
> Josh

You can use a combination of a static gobo and a rotating effects wheel to
achieve this. It depends on how much of an area you want to cover and at
what brightness as to how many lanterns you'd need to use. The trick is to
get the wheel speed right. (We used a similar effect a couple of weeks back
to give a ripple effect on a stream, but the rotator controller had two
speeds - off and 60mph, so it looked like a raging torrent rather than a
rippling brook!!)

Talk to the hire houses near you - they'll likely be more than happy to demo
for you.

Ynot



From: "Ken" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Rain effect
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"Anotomus101"  wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hello,
>
> I am desighning the lighting plot for a show that requires a rain
> effect for all but 5 minutes of the show. i am puzzled about how to do
> this. a gobo rotator will create a swirling effect, not a sliding
> one(like rain). are there any products that can create this effect, or
> shoudl i just tell the director that all i can do is a special with a
> rain gobo and sound effect?
>
> thank you
> Josh

The toy you want is the GAM Film/FX.
http://www.gamcolor.com/

Ken



Lines: 13
X-Admin: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Frank Wood)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Date: 31 Mar 2003 17:55:23 GMT
Organization: AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk
Subject: Re: PAR 36
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

>This seems to be somewhat hard to find information. 
>Where I have seen numbers, those have been that beam spread 
>is around 5 degrees. 

PAR 36 I don't know. PAR 64 lamps come in four different flavours. From pretty
narrow to quite wide. I use thm so seldom that I have forgotten the codes. VNSP
is the narrowest.


Frank Wood
[email protected]



From: "Adam Aglionby" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: PAR 36
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"Gerry Harris"  wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hi
> What is the beam angle of PAR36 lamps? Can't find any info.
> How do they vcompare for light output against birdies?
>
> Cheers

PAR 36 like all the Parabolic Aluminised Reflector lamps is just the bubble
size in 1/8s inch, stuffed in the bubble can be a massive array of different
filaments, voltage and power ratings, and even some, with PAR64`s, discharge
sources in them.

Brightness can be extremely high, usually at the expense of lamp life, some
of the screaming bright ones will give you all of 25 hours,  if your
lucky.But then your unlikely to use them on all the time , more as audience
blinders or such.

MR16 lamps, why they`re not MR 2inch dunno, won`t be as bright or as narrow
beamed but should be able to see a lot more hours out of them.

http://www.barbizon.com/lamp/par.html

http://www.lightcalc.com/specs.html

http://www.gelighting.com/eu/downloads/stage_studio_catalogue.pdf

HTH
Adam

P.S. Frank, never needed a nice bright beamlight for someat ?








Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 23:57:29 +0100
From: Thomas Paterson 
Reply-To: [email protected]
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Subject: Re: PAR 36
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Adam Aglionby wrote:
> MR16 lamps, why they`re not MR 2inch dunno, won`t be as bright or as narrow
> beamed but should be able to see a lot more hours out of them.

Adam,
     just a little ad for one of my favourite lamps (or actually, two of
them).  GE make 20W 7� and 42W 9� MR-16 lamps, which are brilliant lamps
for accent lighting in architectural work, but are also excellent for
narrow spots - there is something about the quality of the beam that
knocks out all other MR-16s.  Great for set integration, and the 42
watters make excellent curtain washes in zip strips.

My other favourite lamp family for narrow beams is the AR-48 range. 
Very cool, somewhere below eight degrees, with no field to speak of.  A
slight glare line at 85� off axis, but any well designed fitting soaks
this up.

Why do I rave about these lamps?  Because not many people know about
them, supply houses don't bother carrying them in the UK, so I want as
many people out there buying them, so that they get more available for
me.
 
Regards,

Thomas Paterson,
LUX POPULI!

[email protected]

From: [email protected] (Grant)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: PAR 36
Date: 1 Apr 2003 03:16:28 -0800
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
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[email protected] (Frank Wood) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> >If you're putting PAR56 bubbles in Par64 cans cos they're the same angle 
> >then tis unsurprising that you have little use for them :-)
> 
> I don't.
> 
> If you look back throught the archives, you will find that I have said that
> PAR-cans offer the most lumens per dollar, pound, or whatever currency unit you
> use. You will also find that I have said that their vague beam patterns are not
> suited to serious stage lighting.
> 
> 
> Frank Wood
> [email protected]

Frank Frank Frank. 


You are a BBC trained Engineer. Hey you evan had a short period as a
Lecturer. Are you trying to say that you cannot possibly imagine a
single use for one of these lights,

If you realy can't then I'l see if I can help think of examples for
theatrical uses.

*Dance - Back lighting

*Musical - Beamlighting

*Straight Theatre - Light through a window...

This was three thoughts off the top of my head. 

OK Of course they aren't as good as profiles at projecting or as
Fresnels at masking but you as an Engineer should know that you use
the most apropriate tool for the job.


Grant

Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 09:58:50 +0100
From: Thomas Paterson 
Reply-To: [email protected]
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
To: Samuel Benjamin Lunderville 
Subject: Re: dimmer control standards
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Samuel Benjamin Lunderville wrote:
> 
> How much compatibility is there between building management equipment and
> entertainment equipment? Clearly my application is a 'building management'
> one, but can I have it both ways? Are there 'entertainment' lighting
> controllers that accept RS-232 input?

Absolutely, and there is a lot of entertainment kit designed to take
RS-232.  Any company which is trying to get out of straight theatre of
discos will have such kit, because it allows them to be used in museums,
commercial developments, shopping malls and restaurants with boutique
discos run off central time cues.

RS-232 systems allow your signal source to generate a one word string
(or more, should you need it).  Your listening devices are simply
programmed to respond to that string.  It is very basic really, but very
effective because it allows you to interface anything - all device
suppliers will give you a library of commands for their kit.
 
> Thomas Paterson  wrote:
> : From the controller to the dimmers, you can use whatever you want,
> : however, if you are thinking of interfacing the timeclock (presumably
> : outputing event signals?) to items other than lighting, then RS-232 is
> : the only sensible protocol.
> 
> Re tinkering with appliances -- my dad tells the story of taking apart his
> mother's mixmaster when he was a child. When he got down to the rotor of
> the motor, there were no screws to take out -- so he split it with the
> axe!

That is not tinkering, that is standard practice for repair technicians
isn't it!

Regards,

Thomas Paterson,
LUX POPULI!

[email protected]

Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 2003 23:22:27 +0100
From: Thomas Paterson 
Reply-To: [email protected]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (Win95; U)
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Samuel Benjamin Lunderville wrote:
> I want to build a modular system (for household use, but possibly
> using theatrical control standards) that will fade lights up and down at
> preset times of day.

> I want to make the clock and controller separate in case I someday 
> want to control non-lighting-related equipment, or initiate fades on 
> some basis other than time of day.)
> 
> What protocol should I use to let the clock talk to the controller? MIDI?

From the controller to the dimmers, you can use whatever you want,
however, if you are thinking of interfacing the timeclock (presumably
outputing event signals?) to items other than lighting, then RS-232 is
the only sensible protocol.  It is universal for interfacing
AV/Lighting/Comms/Networking/Blinds/Doors/HVAC and everything else in a
building management system.  The reason is that you set up your time
clock to output a set of commands down the RS-232 line, be they
addressed instructions, event calls or the like, and the relevent
devices can be programmed to respond to them.  There are various
protocols by specific BMS manufacturers, but ALL of them have RS-232
modules.  Why?  It is the universal protocol for such equipment. 

SMTPE and MIDI are both entertainment specific.  Great for what they
are, but you do better setting something up that will even talk to the
oven (now wouldn't the wife like that!).

T.

Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 21:55:10 -0500
From: Ben 
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Subject: Re: dimmer control standards
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Samuel Benjamin Lunderville wrote:
> I want to build a modular system (for household use, but possibly
> using theatrical control standards) that will fade lights up and down at
> preset times of day. I realize that building the components myself
> will not be the cheapest or easiest solution; I'm setting myself this
> problem so I can learn to design with microcontrollers.
> 
> I've tentatively decided that the clock, dimmer controller and dimmers
> should be separate modules. (I want to make the clock and
> controller separate in case I someday want to control non-lighting-related
> equipment, or initiate fades on some basis other than time of day.)

Ok, if I were you I wouldn't be so sure that it's worth making the clock 
a separate unit, when all it does is stream out the time to the 
controller (which is making all the decisions as to what needs to be 
done when).  You could easily get a real-time clock IC and include it in 
your controller.. much simpler and easier.

> 
> What protocol should I use to let the clock talk to the controller? MIDI?

But if you really want a separate clock then I guess, if you want a 
standard, you could use MIDI time code.  Or SMPTE time code.  But I 
think MIDI is easier to implement and it's the same thing.

Maybe it would be more fun to have the "clock" unit keep track of what 
actions you want to happen when, and output MIDI Show Control messages 
(yet another standard for messages being passed over MIDI) or just 
simple note-on note-off messages with different notes triggering 
difference memories on your controller.  So your clock would be more 
like a sequencer.. if you plugged it into a synthesizer or sampler you 
could have it strike the bells on the hour :)

Which would leave the "controller" as a device that stores sets of 
dimmer levels (called a "scene" memory or "preset").. you could select 
which scene to play from any MIDI device.. this would imitate the 
functionality found on a lot of lighting boards.

This seems like a better division of labor to me, if you are planning to 
use these devices for other projects.  But of course there is a downside 
in that the clock will need a more sophisticated user interface.  I 
guess it's whatever floats your boat.

> 
> What protocol should I use to let the controller talk to the dimmers? DMX?
> 

Yes.  Since you're probably only going to control a few dimmers you 
should have plenty of CPU time between packets to do whatever you need. 
  And it is the standard, so you can easily control cheap DJ type dimmer 
packs up to theatrical and studio packs.  Also you can get relay packs 
that are controlled with DMX.

But if you want you can use MIDI to control the dimmers too.  There are 
a couple of MIDI dimmer packs out there.  It's a lot easier protocol to 
work with than DMX, since the bitrate is so much less.  But it's not 
really the standard for lighting and your options will be limited.

> I want to pick standards that are commonly used and not expected to become
> obsolete soon. I may get lazy and buy dimmers.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ben
> 
>  

Let us know how it comes along.
-another Ben


From: Jehan Manekshaw` 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Lighting the musicians??
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 2003 14:57:45 +0100
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A couple of things, yes musicians can be damn tempremental, but I've
found that by immediately going up to them and proving to them that your
not "that horrid technical" type of guy/girl they warm up to you much
more. Yes, cuddle up, cosy up, be nice, tell them that you really want
to make sure they are comfortable AND look good (in that order) and they
tend to be a little more accomodating.

THERE ARE MORE CHOICES FOR LIGHTNG MUSICIANS  than what has been
suggested here. I don't know the 'how' of it, but if you can, hunt down
the person who lit BBC's concert orchestra at the Brixton Academy in
London (where they did a tribute to film music/techo/trance etc... they
played Moby, Orbital etc.. - the concert was called "Club Classical").
The lighting matched the mood it was brilliant!
They all came on wearing black tees and trousers, they all had those
little blue LED magnets that are worn as earings, nose rings, etc. etc.
There was a cyc with all sorts of things going on, multiple rotating
gobo patterns etc.. the lighting on the musicians changed with the beat
of  the music, and gave the whole place and the orchestra a full fledged
'club' look!  Went from super bright, to super dim, lots of 'bumps', and
get this - the musicians were having a BLAST!  So... for all you
naysayers out there, this is a good example of what can be done.

I once lit a band by weighing down their music stands and using source
4's top down to light thier sheet music - i.e I had control over what
they could see (heh heh heh) - and always making sure that those lights
kept up with and whatever else was going on. They played in it, got used
to it, and we had a great musical revue. Plus the shafts of light
hitting thier music looked nice, and the glow thier faces got OFF of the
sheet music looked nice too.

P.S. the timpanist is right. the heat tightens the membrane by a lot! If
anything, that proves that musicians do know what they are talking about
too.

P.S.S Which makes me think, given some of the anal-retentive remarks I
heard about musicians.. LD's can be quite 'particular' about their
instruments, methods, and working styles too. Is there a little
transference going on here? ;-)


From: "Ynot" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Lighting photos?
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 21:25:39 +0000 (UTC)
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"Andrew Sobala"

wrote in message
news:pan.2003.05.05.20.58.50.78280@i-cant-give-this-to-you-because-i-already
-get-too-much-spam.com...
> Hi,
>
> The recent "1000 words" thread got me thinking. Do the experienced
> lighting designers here have webpages with some photos of things they have
> done?
>
> I've been doing lighting at my school/college for a number of years and
> I'm trying to teach myself to get better. I think photos of good lighting
> design will probably help.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Andrew

All jest aside, photographs of stage scenes seldom do justice to the
lighting or the set in many cases. It's an age-old tussle, especially at
amateur shows between the LD and a photographer, because what's likely to be
great for the audience is seldom half right for the snapper. Take an
extreme - UV - will look cracking with the right amount of masked UV source,
the right costume/set dressing, but take a photo with even a half-decent
camera and you'll get something that looks like my 6 year old took it!

Theatre photography is a bit of an art, and one that few can say reflects
the 'real' live viewpoint.

That being said, you can oft-times get a decent result with a good quality
SLR, a fast film and some patience waiting to get the right shot.

Most of the pix on my own website for our theatre have been pulled from a
digital video camera, and as such are variable (though the effects bit did
give me some interesting alternate vistas!)
I do have some older pix that I have taken over the years (not all of my own
design work, but some are) and when I get round to it I will be posting some
more.....

Watch this space, as it were!

Ynot



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Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 23:32:03 +0100
From: Thomas Paterson 
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Andrew Sobala wrote:
> I've been doing lighting at my school/college for a number of years and
> I'm trying to teach myself to get better. I think photos of good lighting
> design will probably help.

It will help you to understand photos of other people's work if you
learn to photograph your own.  A good quality SLR with tungsten balance
slide film usually gives the best results.  If it is not staged for
photography in a special photo call(when you can freeze the actors in
place) then you need a reasonably brisk film, a 200-800 ASA.  The faster
you go, the grainier the image.  I work in architectural lighting, so I
use very slow film - if my subject starts moving, then I have graver
concerns than the photography!!!  Kodak and Fuji both make excellent 64
ASA slide films.  With a proper slide scanner, they make sensational
digital images, ones that a digital camera is hard pressed to get so
far.  It takes some time to learn though!

Slide film is used because its colour saturation is far beyond that of
print film.  If you are working with print film, use a Fuji negative on
Kodak or Fuji paper.  Never, ever, ever, even consider using AGFA. 
There is no life in the colours.  Slide film is a bit more expensive,
but they aren't going to let you bump in again and summon the actors
once the show is over, so you get one chance.  Pay the money, get the
results.

Regards,

Thomas Paterson,
LUX POPULI!

[email protected]

From: Duncan Wood 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Lighting photos?
Date: Mon, 05 May 2003 23:09:53 +0100
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On Mon, 05 May 2003 23:32:03 +0100, Thomas Paterson 
 wrote:

> Andrew Sobala wrote:
>> I've been doing lighting at my school/college for a number of years and
>> I'm trying to teach myself to get better. I think photos of good 
>> lighting
>> design will probably help.
>
> It will help you to understand photos of other people's work if you
> learn to photograph your own.  A good quality SLR with tungsten balance
> slide film usually gives the best results.  If it is not staged for
> photography in a special photo call(when you can freeze the actors in
> place) then you need a reasonably brisk film, a 200-800 ASA.  The faster
> you go, the grainier the image.  I work in architectural lighting, so I
> use very slow film - if my subject starts moving, then I have graver
> concerns than the photography!!!  Kodak and Fuji both make excellent 64
> ASA slide films.  With a proper slide scanner, they make sensational
> digital images, ones that a digital camera is hard pressed to get so
> far.  It takes some time to learn though!
>
> Slide film is used because its colour saturation is far beyond that of
> print film.  If you are working with print film, use a Fuji negative on
> Kodak or Fuji paper.  Never, ever, ever, even consider using AGFA. There 
> is no life in the colours.  Slide film is a bit more expensive,
> but they aren't going to let you bump in again and summon the actors
> once the show is over, so you get one chance.  Pay the money, get the
> results.
>
> Regards,
>
> Thomas Paterson,
> LUX POPULI!
>
> [email protected]
>

For live work there's a moderately nice Fuji 640 tungsten balanced slide 
film.



From: "David Lee" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Lighting photos?
Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 08:21:13 +0000 (UTC)
Organization: QinetiQ
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Lighting photographs can be positively depressing, as the contrast range is
very sensitive to uniformity.  A photo can show up dark spots and
patchiness that you never noticed in the live performance.  This in itself
can be very useful in post-mortem so long as you keep in mind how it looked
to the audience and don't let yourself get too disheartened!  

If we are talking about photos of the lighting states - as opposed to live
action - then you may get a totally wrong impression of the quality of the
lighting.  The set itself may be lit perfectly and the photos look
wonderful but that doesn't necessarily mean that the actors are properly
lit.  

David

Ynot wrote...
> 
> All jest aside, photographs of stage scenes seldom do justice to the
> lighting or the set in many cases. It's an age-old tussle, especially at
> amateur shows between the LD and a photographer, because what's likely to
be
> great for the audience is seldom half right for the snapper. Take an
> extreme - UV - will look cracking with the right amount of masked UV
source,
> the right costume/set dressing, but take a photo with even a half-decent
> camera and you'll get something that looks like my 6 year old took it!
> 
> Theatre photography is a bit of an art, and one that few can say reflects
> the 'real' live viewpoint.
> 
> That being said, you can oft-times get a decent result with a good
quality
> SLR, a fast film and some patience waiting to get the right shot.
> 
> Most of the pix on my own website for our theatre have been pulled from a
> digital video camera, and as such are variable (though the effects bit
did
> give me some interesting alternate vistas!)
> I do have some older pix that I have taken over the years (not all of my
own
> design work, but some are) and when I get round to it I will be posting
some
> more.....
> 
> Watch this space, as it were!
> 
> Ynot
> 
> 
> 

From: [email protected] (sarah thiboutot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Fairground Lightbulbs ?
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 20:07:47 -0400
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
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In article , "News"
 wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> I'm looking for a certain type of light bulb and I need to know if there's a
> specific name for them or where I could buy some in the UK
> 
> They are used mostly on fairground rides and in amusement arcades. They are
> small jewel shaped bulbs about the size of a golf ball and come in all
> different colours.
> 
> Hope you can work out what I mean, I can't find any references or pictures
> of them on the web.
> 
> I'm looking to make a sign for a production I'm involved in and would like
> to use these. Could there be any alternative? They need to be quite tough
> and in different colours preferably

Rosco (and probably other companies) make a product called "lamp dip" for
the purpose of coloring lightbulbs.  As I recall, its fairly expensive,
but a pint of it will last forever if you keep it sealed, and colors can
be mixed and thinned with paint thinner.  (I have yet to meet anyone who
has dipped enough bulbs to use up a container of lamp dip......you should
get at least a few hundred A lamps out of it.) If you have the perfect
shaped lightbulb, you can color them.

If you can't find any the right shape......I'm unclear what shape you're
looking for.  Spherical "marquis" bulbs should be available at any
lighting supply store (or Home Depot), but they are usually candelabra
base.  Old-style Christmas tree lights are vaguely flame-shaped (more like
egg-shaped), but you would probably have to look at flea markets and the
like--I don't know that they make them anymore.  Otherwise, I'd ask at a
fairground or amusement park--they may be able to put you in touch with
their supplier.   "Tough" you may be out of luck on......

From: Clive Mitchell 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Fairground Lightbulbs ?
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 02:10:41 +0100
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In article 
, sarah thiboutot  writes
>Rosco (and probably other companies) make a product called "lamp dip" for
>the purpose of coloring lightbulbs.  As I recall, its fairly expensive,
>but a pint of it will last forever if you keep it sealed, and colors can
>be mixed and thinned with paint thinner.  (I have yet to meet anyone who
>has dipped enough bulbs to use up a container of lamp dip......you should
>get at least a few hundred A lamps out of it.) If you have the perfect
>shaped lightbulb, you can color them.
>
>If you can't find any the right shape......I'm unclear what shape you're
>looking for.  Spherical "marquis" bulbs should be available at any
>lighting supply store (or Home Depot), but they are usually candelabra
>base.  Old-style Christmas tree lights are vaguely flame-shaped (more like
>egg-shaped), but you would probably have to look at flea markets and the
>like--I don't know that they make them anymore.  Otherwise, I'd ask at a
>fairground or amusement park--they may be able to put you in touch with
>their supplier.   "Tough" you may be out of luck on......

It's probably worth commenting that America tends to use a particular
type of bare coloured lamp for their fairground lighting, while in
Europe we use the tough polycarbonate cabochon caps with a replaceable
lamp inside.


-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

From: Clive Mitchell 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Fairground Lightbulbs ?
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 02:16:33 +0100
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In article , News
 writes
>I'm looking for a certain type of light bulb and I need to know if there's a
>specific name for them or where I could buy some in the UK
>
>They are used mostly on fairground rides and in amusement arcades. They are
>small jewel shaped bulbs about the size of a golf ball and come in all
>different colours.
>
>Hope you can work out what I mean, I can't find any references or pictures
>of them on the web.
>
>I'm looking to make a sign for a production I'm involved in and would like
>to use these. Could there be any alternative? They need to be quite tough
>and in different colours preferably

You can buy them from Remco Signs on 0115 930 7769.  (Derbyshire) They
are a major supplier to the fairground industry.

They are available in either a lens or crystal cap.  The lens cap is
basically a fresnel lens which makes a very directional point of light,
while the crystal style cap shoots the light everywhere and creates a
nice star effect on the surface it's mounted on.

There are a couple of sizes available with either solder or insulation
displacement connectors.  If the backs of the lampholders are going to
be exposed (highly likely in a set) then choose the insulation
displacement connectors, and hook them up with tri-rated cable.

The lamps used on fairgrounds are 60V 10W in the full size caps, and
they have to be wired in series multiples of four (two for 110V).  This
gets complicated when you are doing multi channel chase circuits, since
a four channel border will require an exact multiple of 16 caps.  (Four
channels times four in series per channel.)

The reason 60V lamps are used is partly to keep the voltage across the
lampholder down, and partly because the lower voltage lamps are much
more robust.  Another advantage of the series circuits is that when a
lamp fails, there are three other lamps in series to limit the current,
so that it doesn't go with a bang and take a triac out.

If you need a genuine fairground lighting controller to run them in a
convincing manner, then I can help.  I've been manufacturing fairground
lighting controllers since 1991.  Failing that, just program a simple
chase on your desk.

-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

From: [email protected] (sarah thiboutot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Image projection on backdrop. (how-to?)
Date: Wed, 21 May 2003 23:05:24 -0400
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
Lines: 38
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In article ,
[email protected] (Tyler McGraw) wrote:

> Apologies for jumping into your forum here (without an invite) Hoping
> you can answer a few questions or direct me to an FAQ. RE: Image
> projection on a backdrop.
> 
> I have an image fade on my website (http://www.hannibaljones.com  see
> the left hand side) that is also incorporated into my CD artwork, and
> posters etc. I would like to add this feature to our stage lighting
> for live shows.
> 
> What is the "CORRECT" way (read: reliable with minimal setup, and
> road-worthy-ness)  to project multiple images on a muslin backdrop as
> part of stage lighting? What about projecting from the back, through
> the muslin? Can this be accomplished with a PAR light and some sort of
> gel frame/lens?

A slide projector.  Depending on ambient light levels, you probably need
one considerably more powerful than what your mom uses to show vacation
slides, but for multiple images, slides are your best bet.  You don't
mention where in the world you are, but whoever sells or rents your
lighting equipment should either carry projectors, or know who in the area
does.  To fade from one image to another, you will need 2, or a projector
connected to a computer running Powerpoint or a similar program.

You will not get enough sharpness from a PARcan.   An ERS (leko) with a
gobo will project a good, sharp image, but custom gobos are expensive, and
you will need a light for each image.

Rear projection is great for avoiding shadows, but requires a lot of
upstage space and a more powerful projector.

Images will project better the smother your surface is.  Muslin works
fine, but you will need to weight the bottom of the drop and possibly find
something to stretch the sides to. 

YMMV

From: [email protected] (sarah thiboutot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Image projection on backdrop. (how-to?)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 19:40:15 -0400
Organization: MindSpring Enterprises
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In article ,
[email protected] (Tyler McGraw) wrote:

> Thanks again to everyone who responded. Off to order gobo's this week.
> Great tip re: Artwork as I want it projected. Would never have thought
> to ask. The B&W option seems interesting.
> 
> How does it work? I asume its a slice of metal with a bunch of
> pin-size holes in it. Is that correct? Also could I just add a gel to
> the B&W gobo for color? Most of my images are greyscale anyway. I
> don't mind if all the images are mono-colors.

A standard metal gobo is a piece of sheet metal with cutouts.  (You can
make a crude and short-lived version with a Coca-cola can and a
pocketknife.)  A greyscale metal gobo has tiny holes of varying sizes to
create a mesh and produce the greyscale.  
The gobo itself goes into a metal holder that slides into a slot roughly
even with the shutters in the light.  Depending on the brand of gobo and
style of metal holder, the gobo may need to be trimmed--a decent pair of
scissors should do the trick.  The image will be projected reversed and
upside-down from the way the gobo sits in the unit....trial and error will
teach you the right way.  Glass gobos need to be inserted with the shiny
(mirrored) side facing the source; metal gobos can go either way.
Gel can be added as usual.  Intensity drop may be a prblem if the image is
primarily dark and you choose a saturated color.    Taped-together pieces
of different colored gels are sometimes used with patterns, but don't
expect to be able to control the color blending.
Good luck.  :)

From: "Adam Aglionby" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Image projection on backdrop. (how-to?)
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"Tyler McGraw"  wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Thanks again to everyone who responded. Off to order gobo's this week.
> Great tip re: Artwork as I want it projected. Would never have thought
> to ask. The B&W option seems interesting.
>
> How does it work? I asume its a slice of metal with a bunch of
> pin-size holes in it. Is that correct? Also could I just add a gel to
> the B&W gobo for color? Most of my images are greyscale anyway. I
> don't mind if all the images are mono-colors.

Its just a shadow mask, meshed gobos are just that, with a mesh so they can
carry completely cut out shapes and finer detail.Glass gobos are etched from
metal caoted glass and will carry finest deatal and won`t buckle in the
lantern gate like metal can over time.

Remember you`ll pay a whack for intial artwork charge and then less per unit
after from same artwork, think about spares and fading the same image in
more than one colour from different lanterns.

> Also with a mono-color projection, it may be easier to blend into my
> existing stage lights. (asume its more dramatic to project one color
> vs. a 4 color image)

It`s going to be a lot cheaper, one of the sites listed earlier puts a 4
colour dichroic gobo at $500 for intial one unit. Possibly brighter as well.

Remember to come back and let everyone know how it looks.

Adam

> Peace,
>
> Tyler
> aka. Hannibal Jones
> http://www.hannibaljones.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [email protected] (sarah thiboutot) wrote in message
news:...
> > In article <%[email protected]>, "Adam
> > Aglionby"  wrote:
> >
> > *agree with others comments re: gobos vs. slides.  If you're only
talking
> > about 2 images, go with the gobos.  mea culpa for not looking at the
> > website first.*
> >
> >
> > > >>>SNIPPED<<<
> >
> > > > Both rigs will be mounted near each other and aligned so the
projected
> > > > images overlap. DMX dimmer control will power each unit on a cycled
> > > > rotation as follows;
> > > >
> > > > Image #1 -->begin fade in to full on -->Image #2-->off  Image
> > > > #1-->begin fade out to full off-->Image #2-->begin fade in to full
> > > > on--> 
> > >
> > > Play around with the timing a bit , you want to avoid a dip as both
fixtures
> > > dim in the middle....
> > >
> 



From: Dale Farmer 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Carnival Float Lighting
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 2003 12:17:07 -0400
Organization: Furry green fuzz in the back of the refrigerator
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Ryan Ward wrote:

> I have been asked to assist in the lighting for a carnival float (aprrox
> 21ft long x 7 foot wide), with the theme being 'Noddy'
>
> I haven't got a clue where to start, as everything must be waterproof
> (although dimmers and desk can be housed inside one of the set pices), so a
> rack of PAR 56's is out, and the only thing I can think of is 150W/500W
> garden floodlights.
>
> Everything has to be run off of generators, and maximum available is 10kw
>
> Anybody any experince / ideas on this please !
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ryan Ward

    Make sure the generator ground lug is well connected to the steel frame
of the vehicle, and any metal structures you build on the thing are also
electrically connected to the frame.   In this context, your ground is the
metal
frame, not the big ball of dirt that it is rolling over.   All power wiring
should
be proper three wire connectors, and I think you meant weatherproof rather
than waterproof.    If you have performers who are going to be jumping off
the float with power or sound cables, then attaching some grounding straps
from the frame to drag on the roadway might be useful in connecting your
float's frame ground to the earth ground.
    I think for ease of construction and reduction of possible sources of
failure,
I'd use as much as possible standard extension cords and boxes intended for
construction sites.  They are durable, readily available, and most everyone
seeing them will understand what they are and not to touch.  If you are using
dimmers, then you will need a bunch of adapters.  Also, once the event is
finished, you can salvage the cords, cables, and connectors for future use.
PAR cans are actually just fine running in the rain.  I've used some that were
put up and left out in the weather for a couple months for outdoor venues.
Since you are somewhat power limited, investigate some of the fluorescent
fixtures for your wash lighting, reserving incandesants for key lights.  UV
fluorescent paints and some black lights can also punch up the painting on
the thing.
Remember that your thing is going to have a lot of vibration, so bulbs will
blow early, have spares on the float so you can replace any that have gone
out during the transport from your home base to the parade start point.
Spare fuses for everything as well.
    Do run a test of your entire thing, with all the lights and sound systems
blaring to see if you will be able to run the entire parade on one tank of
fuel for your generator.  Make provisions for refueling your generator if
not while it is running.  ( Many generators are not certified to be refueled
while operating. )  It would be just as bad, if not worse to have your float
blow up in the middle of the parade due to gasoline spilled on the generator.
Refuel the generator just before the parade starts, and carry about two times
the amount of fuel you expect to need.  ( Comply with all local safety laws
for transporting your fuel. )
    Also allow for several portable fans to be placed on the float to keep
your gennerator, dimmer packs, operators and performers cooled down in
the heat.  A cooler full of iced water, juice, electrolyte sports drinks and
other beverages is essential equipment for hot weather on the float.  Put a
package of large plastic trash bags and some gaffers tape for emergency
rain covers during the parade.  Bring more ice than you think you need.
    Another really handy thing is an intercom system for the driver, operators,

and so on.  This could be a set of radios, or a wired intercom.  This lets the
operators tell the driver to stop, as one of the performers just fell off the
thing, and the driver to warn the operators about problems ahead.  This is
also really useful when backing the ungainly thing into parking spaces.  Put
the radio chargers on the generator and have a spare set of batteries ready.
    As for artistic inspiration, having no idea what Noddy is as a theme, I
can't be helpful there.  Is that a UK beer brand or something?

    --Dale



From: [email protected] (islander)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: outdoor concert lighting
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 03:11:26 GMT
Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
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On 20 Aug 2003 15:20:36 -0700, [email protected] (Stefan Eriksson)
wrote:

>Hello!
>
>I am going to tape a friends concert outdoors and I wonder what
>colortemp they are useing on these events.
>
>If they are using 3200K, won't te audience be blue in the picture
>until it gets dark?
>
>/Thanks
>Stefan


Yes.  

Daylight is approximately 6000 degrees Kelvin. Some theatre lamps are
2800 (tungsten) 3200 (halogen) unless colour corrected, or they may be
using HMI fixtures which are 5500K  or really close to daylight.

If you have any pull, I suggest you try and talk the lighting tech
into using Rosco or Lee colour correction so you are shooting in all
blue lights ....The audience will not notice much difference but the
Camera sure will like it.  

The other option is to use filters ( if on film) for the audience
shots and open on the stage.  If video, do a white balance each time
you change areas.  

cheers
Marv



Lines: 2
X-Admin: [email protected]
From: [email protected] (Madmanknot)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Date: 21 Aug 2003 07:03:21 GMT
Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com
Subject: Re: outdoor concert lighting
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

Hope you're not talking rock concert or anything else where the lights are
gelled for mood or effect cause if so you can forget all about color temp

From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: outdoor concert lighting
Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2003 01:38:33 +0100
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Stefan Eriksson  wrote:
> Hello!

> I am going to tape a friends concert outdoors and I wonder what
> colortemp they are useing on these events.

Probably a fair mix! The parcans are basically TH lamps, but any moving 
lights will almost certainally be some form of discharge lamp with a 
very high CT. In addition I would note that open white (whatever CT that 
happens to be) is seldom used in show lighting and you will probably 
find that almost every lantern is gelled to some obviously non white 
colour.

> If they are using 3200K, won't te audience be blue in the picture
> until it gets dark?

You will almost certainally have to do a lot of colour correction in 
post! Also be wary of auto iris cameras, most concert LDs do not 
light primarily for camera and you may find that the contrast ratio & 
dynamic range of the lighting is greater then would be ideal.

Also TH lamps change CT radically as they are dimmed!

Regards, Dan.
-- 
** The email address  *IS*  valid, do  NOT  remove the spamblock
And on the evening of the first day the lord said...........
.... LX 1, GO!; and there was light.

From: "DmxDesigner" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Dmx Lighting
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Hi Ed... There's many considerations when buying intelligent lights.
Ofcourse a universal control language like DMX for all is much easier to
manipulate. Than say some analoge, some LMX, AMX, CMX just to name a few
different from DMX.

1) Noise from fans... check out everything... Buying sight unseen can lead
to disappointing expectations when a unit is either too dim or too noisy.
Pan/Tilt limits... Reset options. Some have it others need it programmed in
the controller.

2) Stepper motors vs servo.... Just depends on the level of smoothness
you're looking for in movement. Some have fine tune or inverse control
swapping. Many of the cheaper ones don't.

3) Cycle time... Many of the lower end fixtures like Adj and Chauvet only
run for say 15 mins. and need a cooling down period. Most of the bigger and
pricier moving lights have adequate cooling to run continuously.

4) Intensity of candle power &/or lumens output to a defined distance.
Compare to a set standard of your application. I test all mine for a
distance of 30 feet. If it will work well at that distance... then I know it
will be bright enough at 20 feet.

Often the Dj lights of 250 watts or less won't have the punch to be really
visible when using fresnels, pars, or ERS's of 575/750/1000 wattages for
washes.

The Dj gear is OK for smaller events like home parties, small low ceiling
clubs... but from a distance of say 20 feet or more throws... you need a
hefty luminaire.

High End, and some Martin cross over into higher wattage units. Just
research their specs. and versatility... Like say replaceable gobos,
longevity of the bulbs.

Then also depending on the method of hanging or positioning... Many of the
larger units weigh in excess of 45 lbs. each. This can pose a weight issue
for lightweight Dj trussing...

5) This is more common in Europe than America... but many of the bigger toys
are optional to run in the higher 220 or equivalent voltages, which changes
your options for bulbs and that whole ball of wax in outputs.

6) I've looked at some of the fancier Dj gear only to find their bulbs can
run over $140 each... All these factors are issues to add when buying, if
one is in need of budget restraints or not.

If for instance you check out the Varilites some of them use over 28 DMX
addresses/ea. So again... depending on the capacity of your controller...
this too would restrict choices. Some controllers do 192, 512, or 1024 or
more addresses... The more DMX addresses the more fixtures. Opposite if less
is the case.

Adj does have some well built toys... it all depends on how you take care of
them. But since these are usually limited cycle-on instruments... they just
don't hold up well for continuous use in a stage application.

Just my personal experience and I'm no expert with any of these brands
listed above..

Dmx Bill



Reply-To: "Ken" 
From: "Ken" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Dmx Lighting
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"Ed Kaz"  wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I am looking for some intelligent lighting and would like to know which
> brand (Chauvet,American dj, KLS,High End,Martin) has the best bang for the
> buck? I have an Omni controller and 2 trackscans and looking to
expand.Also
> where is a good place to buy (used works for me).
>
> Thanks
> Ed
>
What purpose do you want them for: club, arena rock, corporate
booths/parties and how much money do you have for units and then buying
bulbs that can cost up to 400.00?
Also what voltage are you looking for since you may need a distro and 4/0
tails as well.
High End Systems and Martin make fixtures for the big show and small club
markets and some even cross over.
High end sells used gear on ebay as do other large shops.

Ken



From: [email protected] (Kit)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: CAD Profile Lantern Drawings,
Date: 9 Sep 2003 20:26:20 -0700
Organization: http://groups.google.com/
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"James"  wrote in message news:...
> I was wondering if anyone knew of any free online libraries of CAD lighting
> fixtures in profile - preferably for Autocad.
> 
> I've not found any within the modelbox library, Any other hints?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> James

Hi James: try http://www.cad4theatre.org.uk/html/downloads.html - it's
a pretty extensive library, but I haven't had much time to check it
out... but it's free, so it can't hurt to look

Cheers!

Kit

Message-ID: <[email protected]>
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 2003 10:38:52 +0100
From: Thomas Paterson 
Reply-To: [email protected]
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Kevin wrote:
> 
> Hey,
> 
>     I'm designing a light show for a show choir and I was wandering if
> anybody had some cool tricks I could try. I've done lighting for a few shows
> but never anything this extensive.
> 
> Thanks Kevin P.

Where are you? What is the venue?  What resources do you have
available?  What is your budget?  How many choristers? What are their
costumes? What configuration do they stand in?  Do they move? How do
they handle solos?  What mood do they want?  What style of music are
they singing?

My only universal tip is a row of Geni Shimmers every 400mm along the LX
bar most directly above the choir, pointing downwards, or a ground row
of the sam fixtures shooting from behind over their head.

You'll need some haze - not smoke.

-- 
Regards,

Thomas Paterson,
LUX POPULI!

[email protected]

From: "E. Lee Dickinson" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Lighting
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2003 09:29:20 -0400
Organization: Virginia Tech, Blacksburg, Virginia, USA
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"Kevin"  wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Hey,
>
>     I'm designing a light show for a show choir and I was wandering if
> anybody had some cool tricks I could try. I've done lighting for a few
shows
> but never anything this extensive.
>
> Thanks Kevin P.
>

Just a piece of universal advice: Don't forget that it's your job not only
to provide flash and glamour, but also to try to match the emotional
intensity and content of whatever is being sung.

Choose your colors, patterns, movements, rhythms, etc such that they
contribute to the concert -- in an emotional/poetic sense sense as well as a
visually pleasing one -- instead of detracting.

Red, Green, and Blue lights chasing to the beat don't cut it no more.



From: "Adam Aglionby" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: super-bright pinspots
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"Simon Waldman"  wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dan wrote:
> > I am looking for super-bright pinspots (for
> > example, 100W pinspots).
>
> I think they're called PAR64 ACLs... :-)

All the AirCraft Landing light series suffer from very short lamp life, like
20 odd hours and strange voltage requirements , typically 28V.

>
> Seriously, AFAIK PAR36s don't get especially bright, but look at various
> larger narrow PARs and beamlights.

Well theres the DWE 120V 650 W typical use audience blinders in 8 lights,
which is PAR 36 sized, but what the OP might be after is  Par 36 4509X which
is 12V 100W use a low voltage lighting transformer from electrical
wholesaler, preferably electronic version size of king size mars bar, and
good PAR 36 can.

Adam

> -- 
> "Wise men never sit and wail their loss, but cheerily seek how to redres
>   their harms."                  - William Shakespeare
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
> Simon Waldman, UK            email: [email protected]
>                              http://www.firecloud.org.uk/simon
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>



From: charles 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Red + Blue + Green = ...
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 15:42:51 +0000 (GMT)
Organization: None
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In article ,
   Mike Walker  wrote:
> Im curious what colours from the Lee or Rosco catalogues people have
> had the best experience with when trying to use a 3 colour RGB mix
> that will produce the truest white with tungsten sources (as well as
> good mizxing throughout the spectrum). 

I think you will need a 4 colour set to get enough level out of blue to make
a decent white.

Lee 106 (Primary red), 115 (Peacock Blue), 119 (Dark Blue), & 139 (Primary
Green)  worked pretty well last week.

Otherwise use another circuit of 106 instead of 115.


From: "Brandon Anderson" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Red + Blue + Green = ...
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:01:06 -0600
Organization: The University of Texas at Austin; Austin, Texas
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I've used the three diffusions from Rosco (need to find my book some
day...).  I used them on cyc lights for mixing.  The diffusion helps blend
the light, and the three colors are tailored for mixing.  I got white at
Full blue, almost full green, and somewhere around 80% on the red.  I got
really good amber, cyan, and magenta, along with a number of other neat
colors.  I also used to do red on one side, white in the center, and blue on
the other side for a patriotic look.  I had three sets of 3-cycs to work
with.  I also did rainbow effects by starting with red on one, green on the
next, and blue on the end.  The lights all overlapped about 1/3 of the way,
so I got a good mix between banks.  Wish I had photos to show... Anyways,
those are my recommendations.

-- 

____________________________________

Brandon Anderson
Lighting, Sound, and Video

http://www.bdanderson.com/


"Mike Walker"  wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Im curious what colours from the Lee or Rosco catalogues people have
> had the best experience with when trying to use a 3 colour RGB mix
> that will produce the truest white with tungsten sources (as well as
> good mizxing throughout the spectrum).  I realize this is a subjective
> as well as a relative topic but i'm just looking for a few quick
> opinions or suggestions from those who have done this before of what
> has worked and what hasn't.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Walker
> Mike Walker
> [email protected]
> (check and correct the spelling of the domain to reach me by email)



From: "David Lee" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Red + Blue + Green = ...
Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 14:21:57 -0000
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According to Rosco literature: Roscolux 27 (Medium Red), 80 (Primary Blue)
and 91 (Primary Green) - but it will still be off-white.

David


"Mike Walker"  wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Im curious what colours from the Lee or Rosco catalogues people have
> had the best experience with when trying to use a 3 colour RGB mix
> that will produce the truest white with tungsten sources (as well as
> good mizxing throughout the spectrum).  I realize this is a subjective
> as well as a relative topic but i'm just looking for a few quick
> opinions or suggestions from those who have done this before of what
> has worked and what hasn't.
>
> Thanks
>
> Mike Walker
> Mike Walker
> [email protected]
> (check and correct the spelling of the domain to reach me by email)



From: [email protected] (Chasmo)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Using a Generator for Lights
Date: 20 Nov 2003 15:38:56 -0800
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We use generators all the time to run dimmer packs in the motion
picture industry. The two things to watch out for are 1. overloading
the neutral. (double the wire gauge of your hot legs) and 2. use a
crystal controlled generator as many packs need a good 50 or 60 HZ
power supply to operate reliably.

My experience is in the 1000 to 50,000 amp range, with a couple jobs
in the 500amp area. I have never had a problem other than others not
taking my recommendation to provide a separate generator for the
Lightning Strikes Strobes. ALways put strobes on a different generator
as the amp hit can be rather large.

Charlie
IATSE Hollywood

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From: Uncle Al 
Organization: The Noble Krell
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Dave wrote:
> 
> Hello,
> 
> In terms of a theatrical lighting scenario, using ellipsoidal
> reflector (leko) lights (not that it matters, any light with a focused
> beam will do), does crossing beams of light in mid-air have ANY visual
> effect on the surfaces the lights are projected on (IE faces of
> performers)?  In other words, if I have a light on the left and a
> light on the right, and each is aimed towards a performer at the
> opposite side, will you see any light difference on the face of the
> performers (shadows etc.)?

Photons do not scatter photons - the cross-section for interaction is
tremendously, immensely, hugely too small at any achievable
intensities.  Intensities that would together affect the refractive
index of air (e.g., self-focusing or field ionization) would
separately flash-incinerate the illuminated performers. 

If both beams are coherent in time and space you might get diffractive
effects.  It's hard to keep things clean enough over 50-100 foot
pathlengths.  Holography is typically an optical benchtop affair.

> I understand that the laws of physics state that no, there shouldn't
> be a change, and that common theatrical lighting practice allows this
> crossing of beams but I need some hard proof to tell off one of my
> co-worker lighting techs.
> Any help would be appreciated!

If you had a transparent curtain whose optical absorption was hard by
the color of the incident light, it would have an anomalously large or
small refractive index.  You might diddle something trippy with
chromatic aberration or binary optics, but I wouldn't bet a career on
it.

One thing you can do with crossed beams of modest intensity is
two-photon absorption or fluorescence.  Now the effect depends on the
square of the total intensity and you've got some sharp edges.  But
not on stage.  Sorry.

A beamspread laser and a tenuous glycol fog can give you shimmering
laser speckle, as will merely dropping glitter.

-- 
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
 (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"  The Net!

Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2006 12:03:28 -0400
From: Ron Killmer 
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Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Scrim/painting effect help
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T-bird Leader Steve McGillivray radioed the tower On 9/13/2006 10:47 AM:

> I want create a drop for "Amadeus" where there is a what appears to be the
> walls of an eighteenth century palace when lit from the front - white walls
> with gilt filigree highlights on on door panels and wainscoating. But I
> still want the ability to rear project onto the drop - shadows, perhaps an
> full-color image.
> 
> But I'm not sure how to create the drop.
> 
> Could I use muslin, or must it be a thinner fabric or true scrim material?
> 
> My working theory is to size muslin with glue and only paint on the filigree
> details, highlights and shadows; leaving the raw muslin to be the "white" of
> the walls and giving maximum translucence to the drop.
> 
> Any thoughts or suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> StagecraftAZ
> 

Back lighting drops and sky Cycs is a standard practice.  Scrim is a 
material with similarity to window screen in that there are holes which 
permit seeing objects upstage when those objects are illuminated.  The 
glue sizing should not be nessessary and it prevents use of dyes, which 
areas will stay translucent.

your plan to keep the majority of the cloth unpainted will aid doing back 
lighting effects. For some of the shadow detail I suggest using dyes 
instead of paint.  Painted portions will block back light while dye will 
tint the back light.  Good time to ask, as you can plan with the lighting 
designer some of the effects he may have the equipment to deliver.

-- 
Ron K.
Lighting Designer
Light Works

Message-ID: 
From: Clive Mitchell 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Most advanced light show possible for rock concert?
 <[email protected]>
 
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In message , Steve Shoup 
 writes
>
>"Adam Aglionby"  wrote in message >
>> Genesis were an investor in Vari Lite and helped fund its development,
>> they also are/were an investor in Cambridge Display Technologies CDT
>> who are developing Light Emiting Polymers,LEP, which holds out the
>> promise of the flat screen you can roll up like paper.
>>
>> http://www.cdtltd.co.uk
>>
>> Don`t think thats going to be available in stage sized pieces in time
>> though :-(  Mebbe first to use Lumalive LED fabrics on stage:
>>
>> http://www.research.philips.com/initiatives/photext/index.html
>>
>> Adam
>
>Check out Coolux "Illusion Film" at www.coolux.de
>
>-Steve
>
>
The liquid crystal film is used in French porn parlours in the stripper 
booths.  You have a central stage with a load of booths round it with 
windows with the electrically active film.  Normally you can just see 
the hazy outline of a stripper getting her kit off, but if you insert 
coins or notes into the cash handling equipment it makes the screen 
clear so you can oggle the ho while your credit lasts.

Technically very interesting, but not really my thing.

-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

From: Sean 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Most advanced light show possible for rock concert?
Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2006 12:59:49 +0000
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Clive Mitchell wrote:

> but if you insert coins or notes into the cash handling 
> equipment it makes the screen clear so you can oggle the 
> ho 

um.. you mean "exotic dancer", shirley?

> while your credit lasts.  
That sounds reet classy.  Does it have a handy wipe-clean surface?

Back on video - I've just met Element Labs' "Stealth" LED screen recently
(one big screen touring with Muse, three little ones with Pink).  Its very
impressive, its nice and bright, sort of medium res (about 10mm pitch) and
has an open mesh structure.  

When its switched off it looks like a black gauze from a distance, all but
transparent under the right conditions.  An LED screen that can be used for
a theatrical style "bleed through" effect - opens up some interesting
possibilities.

Sean
x

NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 14:26:40 -0600
From: "TimPerry" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Laser Simulator?
Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2007 15:26:40 -0500
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znelson wrote:
> Thanks for the follow-ups Clive, both here and the other NG.
>
> If you imagine a scene from a movie where a bank vault is protected by
> a grid of laser beams, you'll understand what I need to do. I have
> control over the environment so it can be fairly dark and smoky. I'd
> love to use real lasers because they're relatively cheap and bright
> but imagine a couple dozen static beams with people running through
> them, that's asking for trouble.
>
> I wonder what made the Emulator so awful.

replacement lamps were quite expensive. the internal design was such that
repairs were difficult and hazardous.
emulators were an amazing product but came with a high initial price tag and
a moderately high mortality rate.


 I can imagine if you focused
> that xenon source to a point and through a collimating lens assembly
> that it would be acceptible but I guess it wasn't. If you look at it
> another way, if most of the light from the source wasn't coming out
> through the lens, then were was it going? Lots of wasted photons I
> guess.
>
> At any rate, do you have any recommendations for my application?
> Thanks again!
>

a moving laser on a scrim behind the actors could give the impression of
them running through it. this would eliminate the necessity of smoke or fog
and near darkness.




NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 12:44:38 -0600
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Constructing "houses" on stage
From: Christopher Jahn 
Organization: http://www.actorsplayhouse.org
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 wrote in news:[email protected]:

> 
> "Christopher Jahn"  wrote in
> message news:[email protected]...
>>  wrote in news:[email protected]:
> [snip]
>> >
>> > One thing that will make latex paint adhere well to foam is
>> > to paint the foam first with Rosco Flexbond.  As long as
>> > the foam is good and clean when you flexbond it, everything
>> > sticks, well, like glue!
>>
>> For small amounts, spray adhesive also works.  Ah the things
>> we try on a tight budget and tighter schedule!
>>
>> I just don't like the texture of foam for most applications.
>> Muslin gives you a nice smooth surface.
>>
> I'm always torn about that.  The TD/builder in me wants to do
> it quick and easy.  OTH, the scenic artist in me much prefers
> to paint a muslin covered surface. It is not for nothing that
> fine artists paint on sized canvas! I've pretty well gone to
> muslin covered luan for my stock flats to get the combined
> benefits of the rigidity of the hard cover with the surface of 
> muslin.  You also get the side benefit of not having to worry
> about luan joints on flats bigger than 4x8 and getting a
> cleaner Dutchman joint when putting 2 flats side by side.

And I have demonstrated that it's cheaper to cover the flats in 
muslin than to spend a couple of hours spackling the seams.  With 
superior results.



-- 
}:-)       Christopher Jahn
{:-(       http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html
           http://camera-ephemera.blogspot.com/
If you are what you eat, I could be you by morning. 

From: "rrr" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Constructing "houses" on stage
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2007 23:02:11 -0700
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"Christopher Jahn"  wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>  wrote in news:[email protected]:
>
> >
> > "Christopher Jahn"  wrote in
> > message news:[email protected]...
> >>  wrote in news:[email protected]:
> > [snip]
> >> >
> >> > One thing that will make latex paint adhere well to foam is
> >> > to paint the foam first with Rosco Flexbond.  As long as
> >> > the foam is good and clean when you flexbond it, everything
> >> > sticks, well, like glue!
> >>
> >> For small amounts, spray adhesive also works.  Ah the things
> >> we try on a tight budget and tighter schedule!
> >>
> >> I just don't like the texture of foam for most applications.
> >> Muslin gives you a nice smooth surface.
> >>
> > I'm always torn about that.  The TD/builder in me wants to do
> > it quick and easy.  OTH, the scenic artist in me much prefers
> > to paint a muslin covered surface. It is not for nothing that
> > fine artists paint on sized canvas! I've pretty well gone to
> > muslin covered luan for my stock flats to get the combined
> > benefits of the rigidity of the hard cover with the surface of
> > muslin.  You also get the side benefit of not having to worry
> > about luan joints on flats bigger than 4x8 and getting a
> > cleaner Dutchman joint when putting 2 flats side by side.
>
> And I have demonstrated that it's cheaper to cover the flats in
> muslin than to spend a couple of hours spackling the seams.  With
> superior results.

Labor cost is no object since my labor is all volunteer, however,  no matter
how good a job you do spackling, unless you use a very flat finish and have
some "texture" in the paint (sponging, rag on rag off, over spray etc) the
seams always seem to show in the light.  Also, if you use standard sheet
rock mud, it wants to crack and fall out if you use the flats over and over
and subject them to any kind of flex.  Not to mention sanding spackling
creates just the sort of dust that gives me coughing fits! Must be
psychosomatic since wearing a mask doesn't help!

Peter



From: "Rich Dionne" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Constructing "houses" on stage
Date: 30 Jan 2007 05:01:35 -0800
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On Jan 29, 3:31 am, "LadyC"  wrote:
> Thanks for the tip Rich.  I ordered the Handbook, and it should be
> shipped tomorrow.  Any other tips would be appreciated since I am only
> picking up things by reading--having only had 2 weeks of drama in
> Middle School, and a theater appreciation class in college.  I also
> have the book, Technical Theater for Non-Professionals.

Christopher's comment regarding weight isn't something to ignore; I'm 
used to pro or collegiate stage hands, who can manhandle 8' tall flats 
with ease. Middle schoolers will certainly have some trouble with 
this. An alternative is the softcover version of these flats; muslin 
stretched over the frame is very lightweight, and, depending on the 
amount your order, is sometimes less expensive than lauan.

If the middle school is planning on doing productions into the future, 
you might be able to convince the holders of the pursestrings to spend 
a little extra money on flats that can be used year after year (the 
basis behind so-called "stock scenery"). I'd avoid the foam or PVC-
tarp solutions in this case, however, as you likely won't get as much 
use out of them as lauan-covered ("hardcover") Hollywood-style flats.

I've also seen discussions about using corrugated cardboard panels--
triple or quadruple walled, about an inch or so thick--but that can 
get expensive. EPS foam (like pink foam board) is a fantastic 
substance--we've been experimenting with it as a core for lightweight 
platforms. (We've got some lightweight, portable, 3'x3' tables built 
this way that can easily hold over 400# supported on the edges with no 
visible deflection.) The one caution I'd have for you is regarding 
health and safety: it seems that the easier and "cooler" a material or 
technique is, the more environmentally (and personally) hazardous it 
becomes. Melting EPS foam releases toxic fumes, as does the use of 
spray adhesives; occassionally you'll get an adhesive that not only 
releases fumes, but also degrades the foam, releasing more fumes! 
Respirators and working in well-ventilated areas are key to staying 
safe. (The kind of small-scale project you're describing wouldn't 
necessarily expose anyone to the levels of toxins required to cause 
lasting health effects, but why take the risk?) Whenever possible, 
avoid the "hot-knife" or "hot-wire" methods of cutting foam, and stick 
to traditional saws or knives. They may not always make as clean a 
cut, but I think that's a worthwhile price to pay to avoid the fumes.

Good luck, and post some pictures when it's all said and done!

Rich


From: "Brimmy" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: I'd like to start a career in lighting.
Date: 30 Jan 2007 07:26:41 -0800
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Chris

It depends on how much you already know and how much you want to 
spend.

Most good theatre schools are going to teach you more than just 
hanging, focusing lights and how to run a sound & Lighting  board.  
They will teach you the theory behind the work you do, plus if you are 
lucky your teachers will be professionals from the industry, and you 
will be able to pick their brain to find out how things work in the 
industry.

Or you can try and get a job with one of the  lighting and sound 
company and work your way up as a grunt, get them to teach you the 
ropes.  There are also Unions you can join that will help you learn 
your craft.

Myself I did a 2 year College Theatre Tech course, I still have all my 
books and I am always going back to them for refrence.   I still keep 
in touch some my old class mates and teachers, and am also able to 
network with them about different projects.  Some of the guys I have 
work with thoughtout the years have never gone to school for Theater, 
and yet they know there stuff and are always willing to share their 
knowledge.

Hope this helps

-Paul


On Jan 28, 5:41 pm, "psx1337"  wrote:
> Hello all. I've got a few questions regarding education related to
> lighting and some aspects of the jobs.
> I'm 18 years old, I have a high school diploma and I've been working
> with a local theater as a "theater technician" mainly focusing on the
> lights and sound. I love this work and I've known the owner of the
> theater for quite some time. What I do is help hang the lights, focus
> them, and physically run the show from the booth every weekend. The
> way the owner got into owning his theater was going to a community
> college for 2 years, getting an associates and then another 2 years
> somewhere else majoring in something to do with theater.
>
> I've found this schoolhttp://www.johnsonstatecollege.edu/academics/
> 834.html which offers a two year associates program which focuses
> solely  on the technical aspects of theater. If anyone has any opinion
> on how far this could actually get me, please let me know.
>
> Also, I love concert-type lighting done in arenas and I always thought
> it would be cool to take part in that. Is that field at all similar?
>
> And one last thing, I'd like to know about on average what I could
> expect to make. I live in Connecticut, but I'd guess with this kind of
> work I might be traveling alot.
>
> Thanks
> -Chris


From: "jenr" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: I'd like to start a career in lighting.
Date: 31 Jan 2007 17:52:36 -0800
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Hi Chris -
I'd have to steer you away from Johnson State - the department there
is quite small and underfunded, and the facility and equipment are in
very poor condition.
You can view a couple of pictures here:
http://tinyninjaracer.com/jsc.html

If it's their offer of a 2-year degree that's attractive to you, go
out and work for two years instead. Try starting with a summer stock
gig this summer - they're easy to come by, and are some of the
toughest work conditions you'll encounter. Then use the connections
you make at that gig to find work with other theatres during the
"season". If you find that you like it enough at that point to study
more, go get a 4-year degree. If you're having fun working, keep doing
that. There's a lot to learn in both situations.

Jen


From: "[email protected]" 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: I'd like to start a career in lighting.
Date: 2 Feb 2007 13:00:20 -0800
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On Feb 2, 2:10 am, "psx1337"  wrote:
> Thanks for that Jen. Those photos are depressing, lol. My problem is
> that I have a GED, so I can't go straight into UCONN (which has a
> great BFI Theater Tech program). What's your association with JSC?
> Basically, I need an AA to get into UCONN. And there's no theater tech
> places offering 2 year courses here.

Hello Chris,

If you live in Connecticut and want to go to UCONN's BFA program not a
BFI program.  A GED shouldn't hold you back from that dream, I'd apply
to UCONN much of your admission in to there program will be weighted
on your interview with them and on your portfolio.  If you impress on
them that you really want to be a student there and your portfolio is
good, doesn't have to be great.  You would  stand about an 80% chance
of getting in.  If you went to a local community college took a
English 100 and/or Math 100 Level Courses it would greatly  improve
your  chances of admission when your interviewing.

Seth


Message-ID: 
From: Clive Mitchell 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Stage wash stage lighting for 8 pc band
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In message <[email protected]>, 
[email protected] writes
>Round and round we've gone.  Trying to narrow down how to proceed. We 
>have an 8 pc band.  We want to add lights at this point.  This is for 
>mood or stage wash only (for the most part) and trying to keep the 
>clutter /complexity within reason.  After looking at LED etc it seems 
>the best bet is non-LED PAR cans.  Let's say our stage is typically 
>15x30 feet. We are playing to a mixed middle aged crowd.  We're looking 
>to enhance our performance with lighting but not much more than mood 
>and ambiance. It would be nice to have the option to expand.  Any 
>knowledgable or past experience would be appreciated.

Depending on accessibility to ceiling height, whether there is a truss 
available and power availability, you might like to consider a basic set 
of par cans.  The common choice for a rock band is alternate red and 
blue filters with maybe a white wash centre stage.  It doesn't have to 
flash and it doesn't need a lighting desk or dimmers.  A general wash of 
coloured light is a good basic start.

Do you perform in a fixed venue or are you looking at a small touring 
rig?

-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

From: "David McCall" shop.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Stage wash stage lighting for 8 pc band
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"Clive Mitchell"  wrote in message 
news:[email protected]...
> In message , Sarah 
> Thiboutot  writes
>>In addition to what you mentioned, PAR cans also have the advantage that 
>>you can drop them, roll them around in the truck, and generally beat the 
>>crap out of them, and they'll keep working until they get so bent out of 
>>shape that the lamp won't fit in the housing.
>
> And then you can generally stomp them back into shape again.
>
> They can also be used as handy cookers with a suitable wok and stir-fry 
> ingredients.  ;)
>
> http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/stirfry.jpg
>
> and a different angle:-
>
> http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/stirfry2.jpg
>
What a wonderful idea.

David

> -- 
> Clive Mitchell
> http://www.bigclive.com 



Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 15:38:47 -0600
From: Larry 
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I have to ask what LED Pars you have used.  The ADJ ones and many other 
  suck.  I am using the 183 10mm LED units and have set them side by 
side with a 300W par 56 in any real color and they are comparable.  In 
white they do not come close and are ugly but who is going to use white 
upstage for a band??
Might want to re think your vue of these ,  Many benefits (Power 
consumption bing a big one)

Larry

Clive Mitchell wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>, Larry 
>  writes
> 
>> Had the stage wash 900 and did not like them much for stage light, 
>> Good for close lighting like a cyc or wall wash but too wide for stage 
>> wash. Why have you eliminated LED Par cans??  I found a combination of 
>> LED par for Rear wash and a few Par 56 specials for front light is 
>> great and very low power draw which is nice for clubs.  plus you get 
>> color changing.
> 
> 
> The LED fixtures are great for visual colour chases and FX where they 
> are pointing at the audience, but not so great for colour washes unless 
> your venue is pitch black.
> 
> They do have their place though, and can make a rig look very high tech.
> 

Message-ID: 
From: Clive Mitchell 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Stage wash stage lighting for 8 pc band
 
 <[email protected]>
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 <[email protected]>
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In message <[email protected]>, Larry 
 writes
>I have to ask what LED Pars you have used.  The ADJ ones and many other 
>suck.  I am using the 183 10mm LED units and have set them side by side 
>with a 300W par 56 in any real color and they are comparable.  In white 
>they do not come close and are ugly but who is going to use white 
>upstage for a band??
>Might want to re think your vue of these ,  Many benefits (Power 
>consumption bing a big one)

LED does kick tungsten ass for pure saturated colours, but if you put an 
LED par next to a traditional tungsten par with a sensible high-pass gel 
in it (NOT congo blue!) then the tungsten would win.

Power consumption is another matter.  LEDs win hands down for producing 
saturated colours without the heat of tungsten.

I do like LED.  A quick look at the projects on my website should show 
that.  :)

-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

From: [email protected]
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Stage wash stage lighting for 8 pc band
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On Feb 11, 5:42 pm, Clive Mitchell  wrote:
> In message <[email protected]>, Larry
>  writes
>
> >I have to ask what LED Pars you have used.  The ADJ ones and many other
> >suck.  I am using the 183 10mm LED units and have set them side by side
> >with a 300Wpar56 in any real color and they are comparable.  In white
> >they do not come close and are ugly but who is going to use white
> >upstage for a band??
> >Might want to re think your vue of these ,  Many benefits (Power
> >consumption bing a big one)
>
> LED does kick tungsten ass for pure saturated colours, but if you put an
> LEDparnext to a traditional tungstenparwith a sensible high-pass gel
> in it (NOT congo blue!) then the tungsten would win.
>
> Power consumption is another matter.  LEDs win hands down for producing
> saturated colours without the heat of tungsten.
>
> I do like LED.  A quick look at the projects on my website should show
> that.  :)
>
> --
> Clive Mitchellhttp://www.bigclive.com

LED pars for general wash would be great for power consumption and
pure color but I think we'd end up having to spend about double for
the same light output. Since we are basically a hobby band the budget
is somewhat limited. At this stage it seems reasonable to get
outfitted with standard cans and once familiar with whats lacking or
how to improve our presentation we could phase anything else in over
time.  I must say though it is great to hear others experiences.
Especially with the LED approach. I began to summarize some of the
possibilities and have been looking at the NSI NC508 MPX foot
controller and the American DJ FC-400 controller.  Seems DMX would be
the logical way to go but the NC508 also fits the bill for our needs
at this time as far as hands free basic lighting.



Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2007 21:05:54 -0600
From: Larry 
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Please let me know what your final budget number is and the gear as LED 
is cheaper than most think.  I have 4 local bands now that have 
converted there rigs as well for very similar money when you factor in 
dimmers and cable. Also they are much cheaper in the long run due to 
lamps and gel costs.  I can get LED Par 64's black snub nose for $125 so 
you can do the math.
  And I still say they are just as bright as a par 56 with most common 
colors.
Anyway my 2 cents, will say no more
Larry

[email protected] wrote:

> On Feb 11, 5:42 pm, Clive Mitchell  wrote:
> 
>>In message <[email protected]>, Larry
>> writes
>>
>>
>>>I have to ask what LED Pars you have used.  The ADJ ones and many other
>>>suck.  I am using the 183 10mm LED units and have set them side by side
>>>with a 300Wpar56 in any real color and they are comparable.  In white
>>>they do not come close and are ugly but who is going to use white
>>>upstage for a band??
>>>Might want to re think your vue of these ,  Many benefits (Power
>>>consumption bing a big one)
>>
>>LED does kick tungsten ass for pure saturated colours, but if you put an
>>LEDparnext to a traditional tungstenparwith a sensible high-pass gel
>>in it (NOT congo blue!) then the tungsten would win.
>>
>>Power consumption is another matter.  LEDs win hands down for producing
>>saturated colours without the heat of tungsten.
>>
>>I do like LED.  A quick look at the projects on my website should show
>>that.  :)
>>
>>--
>>Clive Mitchellhttp://www.bigclive.com
> 
> 
> LED pars for general wash would be great for power consumption and
> pure color but I think we'd end up having to spend about double for
> the same light output. Since we are basically a hobby band the budget
> is somewhat limited. At this stage it seems reasonable to get
> outfitted with standard cans and once familiar with whats lacking or
> how to improve our presentation we could phase anything else in over
> time.  I must say though it is great to hear others experiences.
> Especially with the LED approach. I began to summarize some of the
> possibilities and have been looking at the NSI NC508 MPX foot
> controller and the American DJ FC-400 controller.  Seems DMX would be
> the logical way to go but the NC508 also fits the bill for our needs
> at this time as far as hands free basic lighting.
> 
> 

NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2007 14:33:20 -0500
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Tension grid
From: Christopher Jahn 
Organization: http://www.actorsplayhouse.org
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Peter Lemmens  wrote in
news:[email protected]: 

> There we go again.
> I know that this topic was in discussion before, but at this
> moment it gets interesting for me, because our direction
> brought up the possibilitie of going for a tension grid in our
> theatre. At this point I am still in favour of a system with
> battens and little wagons that go between them to focus.
> What are the experiences with tension grid? What are the known
> (and unknown) advantages? How bad is the light reflection? Why
> shouln't you want it and why should you?

The advantages are that you can send EVERYONE up to hang and 
circuit.  No ladders, no need to spot someone on a ladder.
And so much easier to access lights over the seating!  It 
basically cuts the man-hours needed for a hang and circuit in 
half.

You can also be working on the deck while work is going on in the 
grid; while you'll want to take precautions against the 
occasional dropped wrench, you can assemble scenery while lights 
are being re-positioned and circuited.  Again, this can shorten 
the amount of time you need in the room.

The primary disadvantage is using templates; the cables do break 
up the images a bit, particularly if you're trying to shoot them 
from across the room onto scenery.  In that case, those units 
should be rigged below the grid.

You really want to keep your lighting postions fairly steep 
through the grid, but it's not that big a deal for the most part.  
As for the reflections, the audience never seems to notice it. 
Bothered our director at first, but that's because he watches 
rehearsals over and over and over again.  If you're noticing the 
reflections it's because you're not engaged in the play.

Here's a shot of our smaller theater showing the lights through 
the grid:
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g167/xjahn/Theatre/DSC_1528.jpg

-- 
}:-)       Christopher Jahn
{:-(       http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html
           http://camera-ephemera.blogspot.com/

I've had enough...  AOL managed to turn a great
browser into... into... NS6.|[posted to Netscape Feedback] 

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Subject: Re: Tension grid
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Peter Lemmens  wrote in
news:[email protected]: 

> Another aspect of the matter: On all photos of tnesion-grid
> the spots are hung on a pipe so that the lens is very close to
> the grid. I can imagine that that uis the best concerning
> reflection. But it is not a nice position where you have to
> work in when focussing etc. All the work has to be done at
> your knee-level then. Bad for you back I guess. What are the
> experiences? 

Our pipes are hung about 3' over the grid, you work on the light 
at waist level.

-- 
}:-)       Christopher Jahn
{:-(       http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html
           http://camera-ephemera.blogspot.com/
I used to be self-actualized, now I'm just confused. 

From: Peter Lemmens 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Tension grid
Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 15:40:49 +0200
Organization: KORZO theater
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When the clamp is hooked at waistlevel, the gel must be put at more or
less ankle level. So are barndoors. And zoomsliders of profiles go
from knee to ankle. So I suppose that al, except clamps, is more or
less beneath kneelevel. Or do I miss something, somewhere?


On Tue, 01 May 2007 07:26:52 -0500, Christopher Jahn
 wrote:

>Peter Lemmens  wrote in
>news:[email protected]: 
>
>> Another aspect of the matter: On all photos of tnesion-grid
>> the spots are hung on a pipe so that the lens is very close to
>> the grid. I can imagine that that uis the best concerning
>> reflection. But it is not a nice position where you have to
>> work in when focussing etc. All the work has to be done at
>> your knee-level then. Bad for you back I guess. What are the
>> experiences? 
>
>Our pipes are hung about 3' over the grid, you work on the light 
>at waist level.


From: Lloydj 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Tension grid
Date: 3 May 2007 06:51:30 -0700
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 > What are the experiences with tension grid? What are the known (and
> unknown) advantages? How bad is the light reflection? Why shouln't you
> want it and why should you?
>
> Peter Lemmens
> technical manager Korzo theatre
> the Hague, Netherlands
> [email protected]

You can see a picture of the tension grid at USC Columbia Longstreet
theatre on their website.  There is little in the way of lighting
reflections because the cable (available from Fehr Brothers) and all
structure is black.  The cable is woven on approximately 3" centers
and makes quite a nice trampoline between I-beams spaced at about 6'
centers with the support pipe at each intersection being 1-1/2"
schedule 40.  Pook, Diemont and Ohl in the Bronx can do the rigging
design and fabrication.
The entire structure hangs within the building and imparts no
structural loads on the exterior walls.
Lloyd


NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 18:21:51 -0500
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Tension grid
From: Christopher Jahn 
Organization: http://www.actorsplayhouse.org
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Thomas Paterson  wrote in
news:[email protected]: 

> On May 3, 10:14 am, Christopher Jahn
>  wrote: 
>> Lloydj  wrote
>> innews:[email protected]: 
>>
>> > The entire structure hangs within the building and imparts
>> > no structural loads on the exterior walls.
>>
>> The building isn't attached to the exterior walls?
>>
> 
> I'm assuming he means that the tension load is not carried by
> the structure, with the tension entirely internal to the
> tension grid system (basically carried by its frame).  It is
> just the static weight load that is tied in to the building
> structure and walls. 

I was kind of hoping to tweak him in to outlining his 
installation in a little more detail.

> 
> I'd expect this is the only way to do a retrofit - there are
> not a lot of buildings that can support the kind of tension in
> a tension grid from external walls.

Our grid was assembled off-site and installed in sections.  Much 
better than trying to "weave" it onsight; not only does it avoid 
the problem of adding the tension to the existing structure, by 
doing it in smaller sections you avoid the "trampoline" effect.

Here's website with some pics of grid sections; this might be 
someone for your project, Thomas-
http://www.peteralbrecht.com/tensionwire.asp

My TD mentioned that Eisenhower, who came up with the idea in the 
first place, died last week.



-- 
}:-)       Christopher Jahn
{:-(       http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html
           http://camera-ephemera.blogspot.com/
In-con-CEIvable! 

From: Lloydj 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: Tension grid
Date: 7 May 2007 08:09:02 -0700
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On May 3, 11:46 am, Thomas Paterson  wrote:
> On May 3, 10:14 am, Christopher Jahn  wrote:
>
> > Lloydj  wrote innews:[email protected]:
>
> > > The entire structure hangs within the building and imparts no
> > > structural loads on the exterior walls.
>
> > The building isn't attached to the exterior walls?
>
> > --}:-)       Christopher Jahn
>
> > {:-(      http://home.comcast.net/~xjahn/Main.html
> >            http://camera-ephemera.blogspot.com/
> > I have nothing to declare, except my genius.
>
> I'm assuming he means that the tension load is not carried by the
> structure, with the tension entirely internal to the tension grid
> system (basically carried by its frame).  It is just the static weight
> load that is tied in to the building structure and walls.
>
> I'd expect this is the only way to do a retrofit - there are not a lot
> of buildings that can support the kind of tension in a tension grid
> from external walls.
>
> T.

Everybody's correct, and I was not available to tweak, sorry.  The
ends of the cables were terminated with heavy duty cam springs (about
1" dia. x 6" long) to maintain an even tension regardless of
temperature changes.  The steel frame was hung from the roof structure
and tied to the walls for lateral support only.  And yes, it was built
and welded in place in what was a Confederate hospital during the
Civil War. How the building survived Sherman is a result of its
hospital status otherwise it too would have been burned like the rest
of the city.
There is no drawing section that would clarify the structure, but it
was a 6 x 6 angle (installed leg down) on the perimeter with a smaller
angle welded on top to which the springs and cables were attached. I-
beams (W somethings- I never measured them) spanned the space as a
grid.  One section in the center was left open so things could be
hoisted onto the grid.  This feature saved a lot of anguish loading
and unloading the lights and accoutrement and I would recommend it for
any installation.
Hope this helps,
L


Message-ID: 
From: Clive Mitchell 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: LED's for stage lighting
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In message <[email protected]>, 
Jesse  writes
>I was wondering if anybody here has had experiance with LED par cans on 
>a theatrical stage?  I've seen the DJ targeted ones and Altmans 
>architectual lighting insturments online, but not in person.  The 
>Altman insturment is dramatically out of my budget, but the DJ ones 
>(from MBT, Chaveut and the like) could possibly be doable in the near 
>future. So my question becomes, are the MBT LED pars worth trying to 
>use as stage illumination?  These would be in a small theatre, about 
>15-20 feet to the back wall.
>
>Also, how about getting an enviromental organization to provide a grant 
>for this sort of thing?  If they work well enough, they would 
>dramaticaly reduce the theatre's power use.  Sounds like the kind of 
>thing that an enviromental group would want to support.  Have any of 
>you had any luck getting grants to do renovations to make your 
>theatre's more eco-friendly?

The DJ units are not high enough output for a stage.  They are designed 
for a dark club environment.  It's certainly worth buying one to play 
with, and it may find a short throw application.  Be aware that some 
early units tried to do so much with the processor that there was too 
little processing power left to do the PWM at a high enough frequency to 
avoid flicker.

-- 
Clive Mitchell
http://www.bigclive.com

From: back_ache 
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft
Subject: Re: LED's for stage lighting
Date: 30 Apr 2007 07:24:22 -0700
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On Apr 30, 4:43 am, Jesse  wrote:
> I was wondering if anybody here has had experiance with LED par cans
> on a theatrical stage?  I've seen the DJ targeted ones and Altmans
> architectual lighting insturments online, but not in person.  The
> Altman insturment is dramatically out of my budget, but the DJ ones
> (from MBT, Chaveut and the like) could possibly be doable in the near
> future.


I use the four of the DJ ones for a comedy night I tech (two in PAR64
cases as frontlights, two in PAR56 cases as back) my experiences are.

* No latency is good for flashing light effects
* No heat is good for places where heat is dangerous or hard to get
rid of
* the colour redition is wierd
* not needing a dimmer is great
* low weight is great
* there are no "punch" to them at all, you can't light anything more
than a few feet away
* you can't get them to output anything that looks remotely like white.


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From: "Smoking Causes Lung Cancer (SCLC)" 
Subject: Re: "Pink" stage wash opinions please
Newsgroups: rec.arts.theatre.stagecraft,rec.arts.theatre.misc,alt.stagecraft
	
	
	
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On Wed, 06 Feb 2008 10:28:47 -0800, KDRobertson wrote:

> I find it hilarious that someone actually had a rider about the gel
> colors used. It seems like a real handicap not to be able to use amber
> lights in a production because of one person's skin tone.

I found that people with brown skin will glow red if you use magenta or a 
basic red, but that people with white skin will look like they've got 
liver disease if you use amber colours.

I found that one solution for a general wash was to use a combination of 
blue and green and red together, and that, when spotting, colour should 
be used minimally unless for special effect; otherwise the effect is not 
very natural looking.

And besides, their slap should help to counteract the effect of being 
highly visible. :o)


-- 
Smoking Causes Lung Cancer

Franklin D Roosevelt: "We have always known that heedless self-interest
was bad morals; we know now that it is bad economics."