What annoys me today in marketing and media that too often today then talking on hi-fi, science is replaced by bizarre belief structures and marketing fluff, leading to a decades-long stagnation of the audiophile domain. Science makes progress, pseudo-science doesn’t. Hi-fi world is filled by pseudoscience, dogma and fruitloopery to the extent that it resembles a fundamentalist religion. Loudspeaker performance hasn’t tangibly improved in forty years and vast sums are spent addressing the wrong problems.
Business for Engineers: Marketers Lie article points tout that marketing tells lies — falsehoods — things that serve to convey a false impression. Marketing’s purpose is to determining how the product will be branded, positioned, and sold. It seems that there too many snake oil rubbish products marketed in the name of hifi. It is irritating to watch the stupid people in the world be fooled.
In EEVblog #29 – Audiophile Audiophoolery video David L. Jones (from EEVBlog) cuts loose on the Golden Ear Audiophiles and all their Audiophoolery snake oil rubbish. The information presented in Dave’s unique non-scripted overly enthusiastic style! He’s an enthusiastic chap, but couldn’t agree more with many of the opinions he expressed: Directional cables, thousand dollar IEC power cables, and all that rubbish. Monster Cable gets mostered. Note what he says right at the end: “If you pay ridiculous money for these cable you will hear a difference, but don’t expect your friends to”. If you want to believe, you will.
My points on hifi-nonsense:
One of the tenets of audiophile systems is that they are assembled from components, allegedly so that the user can “choose” the best combination. This is pretty largely a myth. The main advantage of component systems is that the dealer can sell ridiculously expensive cables, hand-knitted by Peruvian virgins and soaked in snake oil, to connect it all up. Say goodbye to the noughties: Yesterday’s hi-fi biz is BUSTED, bro article asks are the days of floorstanders and separates numbered? If traditional two-channel audio does have a future, then it could be as the preserve of high resolution audio. Sony has taken the industry lead in High-Res Audio.
HIFI Cable Humbug and Snake oil etc. blog posting rightly points out that there is too much emphasis placed on spending huge sums of money on HIFI cables. Most of what is written about this subject is complete tripe. HIFI magazines promote myths about the benefits of all sorts of equipment. I am as amazed as the writer that that so called audiophiles and HIFI journalists can be fooled into thinking that very expensive speaker cables etc. improve performance. I generally agree – most of this expensive interconnect cable stuff is just plain overpriced.
I can agree that in analogue interconnect cables there are few cases where better cables can really result in cleaner sound, but usually getting any noticeable difference needs that the one you compare with was very bad yo start with (clearly too thin speaker wires with resistance, interconnect that picks interference etc..) or the equipment in the systems are so that they are overly-sensitive to cable characteristics (generally bad equipment designs can make for example cable capacitance affect 100 times or more than it should). Definitely too much snake oil. Good solid engineering is all that is required (like keep LCR low, Teflon or other good insulation, shielding if required, proper gauge for application and the distance traveled). Geometry is a factor but not in the same sense these yahoos preach and deceive.
In digital interconnect cables story is different than on those analogue interconnect cables. Generally in digital interconnect cables the communication either works, does not work or sometimes work unreliably. The digital cable either gets the bits to the other end or not, it does not magically alter the sound that goes through the cable. You need to have active electronics like digital signal processor to change the tone of the audio signal traveling on the digital cable, cable will just not do that.
But this digital interconnect cables characteristics has not stopped hifi marketers to make very expensive cable products that are marketed with unbelievable claims. Ethernet has come to audio world, so there are hifi Ethernet cables. How about 500 dollar Ethernet cable? That’s ridiculous. And it’s only 1.5 meters. Then how about $10,000 audiophile ethernet cable? Bias your dielectrics with the Dielectric-Bias ethernet cable from AudioQuest: “When insulation is unbiased, it slows down parts of the signal differently, a big problem for very time-sensitive multi-octave audio.” I see this as complete marketing crap speak. It seems that they’re made for gullible idiots. No professional would EVER waste money on those cables. Audioquest even produces iPhone sync cables in similar price ranges.
HIFI Cable insulators/supports (expensive blocks that keep cables few centimeters off the floor) are a product category I don’t get. They typically claim to offer incredible performance as well as appealing appearance. Conventional cable isolation theory holds that optimal cable performance can be achieved by elevating cables from the floor in an attempt to control vibrations and manage static fields. Typical cable elevators are made from electrically insulating materials such as wood, glass, plastic or ceramics. Most of these products claim superior performance based upon the materials or methods of elevation. I don’t get those claims.
Along with green magic markers on CDs and audio bricks is another item called the wire conditioner. The claim is that unused wires do not sound the same as wires that have been used for a period of time. I don’t get this product category. And I don’t believe claims in the line like “Natural Quartz crystals along with proprietary materials cause a molecular restructuring of the media, which reduces stress, and significantly improves its mechanical, acoustic, electric, and optical characteristics.” All sounds like just pure marketing with no real benefits.
CD no evil, hear no evil. But the key thing about the CD was that it represented an obvious leap from earlier recording media that simply weren’t good enough for delivery of post-produced material to the consumer to one that was. Once you have made that leap, there is no requirement to go further. The 16 bits of CD were effectively extended to 18 bits by the development of noise shaping, which allows over 100dB signal to noise ratio. That falls a bit short of the 140dB maximum range of human hearing, but that has never been a real goal. If you improve the digital media, the sound quality limiting problem became the transducers; the headphones and the speakers.
We need to talk about SPEAKERS: Soz, ‘audiophiles’, only IT will break the sound barrier article says that today’s loudspeakers are nowhere near as good as they could be, due in no small measure to the presence of “traditional” audiophile products. that today’s loudspeakers are nowhere near as good as they could be, due in no small measure to the presence of “traditional” audiophile products. I can agree with this. Loudspeaker performance hasn’t tangibly improved in forty years and vast sums are spent addressing the wrong problems.
We need to talk about SPEAKERS: Soz, ‘audiophiles’, only IT will break the sound barrier article makes good points on design, DSPs and the debunking of traditional hi-fi. Science makes progress, pseudo-science doesn’t. Legacy loudspeakers are omni-directional at low frequencies, but as frequency rises, the radiation becomes more directional until at the highest frequencies the sound only emerges directly forwards. Thus to enjoy the full frequency range, the listener has to sit in the so-called sweet spot. As a result legacy loudspeakers with sweet spots need extensive room treatment to soak up the deficient off-axis sound. New tools that can change speaker system designs in the future are omni-directional speakers and DSP-based room correction. It’s a scenario ripe for “disruption”.
Computers have become an integrated part of many audio setups. Back in the day integrated audio solutions in PCs had trouble earning respect. Ode To Sound Blaster: Are Discrete Audio Cards Still Worth the Investment? posting tells that it’s been 25 years since the first Sound Blaster card was introduced (a pretty remarkable feat considering the diminished reliance on discrete audio in PCs) and many enthusiasts still consider a sound card an essential piece to the PC building puzzle. It seems that in general onboard sound is finally “Good Enough”, and has been “Good Enough” for a long time now. For most users it is hard to justify the high price of special sound card on PC anymore. There are still some PCs with bad sound hardware on motherboard and buttload of cheap USB adapters with very poor performance. However, what if you want the best sound possible, the lowest noise possible, and don’t really game or use the various audio enhancements? You just want a plain-vanilla sound card, but with the highest quality audio (products typically made for music makers). You can find some really good USB solutions that will blow on-board audio out of the water for about $100 or so.
Although solid-state technology overwhelmingly dominates today’s world of electronics, vacuum tubes are holding out in two small but vibrant areas. Some people like the sound of tubes. The Cool Sound of Tubes article says that a commercially viable number of people find that they prefer the sound produced by tubed equipment in three areas: musical-instrument (MI) amplifiers (mainly guitar amps), some processing devices used in recording studios, and a small but growing percentage of high-fidelity equipment at the high end of the audiophile market. Keep those filaments lit, Design your own Vacuum Tube Audio Equipment article claims that vacuum tubes do sound better than transistors (before you hate in the comments check out this scholarly article on the topic). The difficulty is cost; tube gear is very expensive because it uses lots of copper, iron, often point-to-point wired by hand, and requires a heavy metal chassis to support all of these parts. With this high cost and relative simplicity of circuitry (compared to modern electronics) comes good justification for building your own gear. Maybe this is one of the last frontiers of do-it-yourself that is actually worth doing.
1,576 Comments
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.mysonic.space/phono-cartridge-impedance-loading
Tomi Engdahl says:
http://www.differencebetween.net/technology/difference-between-wet-and-dry-signals-or-sounds/
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/any-technical-minds-know-about-cable-capacitance.18550/
Tomi Engdahl says:
Noise of a Non-inverting Operational Amplifier Circuit
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=W0vfALQ_n54&feature=youtu.be
http://www.analog.com/amplifiers Analog Devices’ Matt Duff calculates the total noise of a non-inverting Operational Amplifier (Op Amp) circuit. The noise sources are: amplifier voltage noise, amplifier current noise, and resistor noise.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Active Vs passive speakers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JGwFElDVZ8
Active speakers would seem a no-brainer for those with smaller apartments and homes, yet there are so few of them in the marketplace. Why is that?
Viewer comments:
My background is in the recording studio as an audio technical engineer. Active speakers are mainly employed in pro audio, not in the audiophile realm. While some of the active speakers made are good, they all have their own sonic attributes. Some of the larger active systems also have their own separate power amps and crossovers are mounted in separate racks… and when finally set up, they truly sound amazing!! I would LOVE to hear a PS Audio system and one day will probably make the drive from Phoenix, Arizona to Boulder, Colorado so I can stop in and say hi, then listen. Don’t worry, Paul… I’ll bring a change of clothes so that when I soil myself as I listen to the amazing clarity of a PS Audio system that I can take care of things and be in good shape. For the most part, powered monitors in the studio are for people who don’t want to pack around a bunch of other stuff (power amps, cables, etc.), but some of the high end systems are without peer… at least so far as my ears know today!
Absolutely right, Paul.
People like to be able to try different combinations of equipment, which puts active speakers on a no-no list.
Another advantage of passive speakers is that if the amplifier takes a sh*t it can be quickly swapped for one that works.
You might call that the “party saver” aspect.
After 50 years of chopping and changing various combinations of amps , pre-amps , cables ,mains conditioners . I heard some ATC active 100 towers and thought i had reached my end game with a Meridian 808v3 as source and control unit combined .they didn`t quite hit the spot , then i heard the flagship Meridian dsp 8000 speaker ,i bought a used pair in 2012 and have now upgraded to se spec with upgraded amps , Dacs and the wonderful Seas Berilium tweeter , now i am completly happy .
Active is the wave of the future for sure — an accomplished professional design team is always going to achieve superior system “synergy” than the efforts of a tinkering, trial & error amateur audio hobbyist can be expected to manage. I still use passive speakers for the ambience/surround role, but the heart of my system — the main L+R speakers and the sub — is active and the result is better than anything else I’ve used in my 50+ years of dedication to quality music reproduction. From the <$1000/pair "entry level" (Kali Audio shines there), to the middle tier (where Genelec and Neumann live) to the high-end (e.g. the IMO astonishing Kii 3 system), there are now excellent active solutions that pretty much anyone ought to at least consider. Spousal approval is recommended, of course — most active solutions are aimed at the professional market and don't pass muster as furniture….
A set of price-point PS audio, active, hifi home audio speakers would be an incredible bang for the buck, and with the right marketing would sell like hot cakes.
Many active speakers are fantastic.
But as Paul said, you do not get to pick your amplifier, because it is built-in to the speaker.
But if you play the speakers, and they sound great, then you are good to go — as long as you understand that there will be no amp upgrade in your future.
And comparisons to passive speakers must be made on a case-by-case basis.
There are countless great sounding passive speakers, and there are countless poor sounding speakers.
So if you have a great pair of "active" speakers, it will blow away most "passive" speakers, except for the best ones.
In the early 1990's, I purchased a pair of AR Powered Partner active speakers for my computer (it was a Gateway 2000, with a 66 mHz DX/2 CPU, 8 MB of RAM, 1 MB of video memory, and a 340 MB hard drive).
Back then, the computers that had speakers had lousy sound. When I heard the AR active speakers, they blew anything and everything that came with a computer in those days.
They still sound good today. But I know that there are far better active speakers today. But for general computer work, these AR speakers are very good.
I am pretty sure that the Genelec active speakers, that Kevin in Hong Kong wrote in about, would blow my AR speakers away. But those Genelec's are for serious music listening, and will probably best nearly all passive speakers in their price range.
Cheers!
Tomi Engdahl says:
How audio depth works
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPXmyWvrCI0
How depth is captured in recordings. Dig even deeper.
Viewer comments:
Naturally it’s all down to the blend of sound in the space picked up by mics at whatever distance and the subsequent natural eq and reverb imparted into that sound. We can do this artificially too as well to push elements back in a mix by replicating this exact effect using careful reverb and eq, blending convolution reverb with an Impulse response of a room (capturing the reverb decay but also the tone of the space) doing this in mono helps on individual elements that can then be positioned within the left right stage but you’ve got to be careful too!
(Btw this is how I work anyways because I don’t actually get to record often so work a lot with audio already recorded or electronic sources which naturally don’t have any sense of space or depth so got to do some audio processing trickery)
Any other advice, tips and tricks for me to experiment with or is this even along the correct lines?
We’re all here to learn! Looking forward to your insights on recording
A perfect example of depth are vintage recordings where a single microphone was used for recording. The instruments and vocalists were positioned around the microphone based on their natural volume to create the mix direct to vinyl disk. Later it became standard to have everything individually mic’ed and all the on-microphone sound was level adjusted via volume control and pan pots. The closest you get to the original idea of depth is with orchestral and choral music where a single stereo (or ambisonic) mic is used to record the event without spot microphones being used to artificially augment the sound. This is also how some of the best sound effects are recorded and used in film and dramatic sound presentations (formerly known as Radio Drama).
As long as you don’t get double-roomed, meaning get the atmosphere of the original room And your listening environment. I seem to recall an article that talked about wet and dry recording and balancing, for that reason.
Tomi Engdahl says:
What Does “Muddy”, “Boxy”, & “Tinny” Sound Like? | WORDS TO DESCRIBE SOUND QUALITY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdkrqIqz5Ek
Learn more about the best ear training method for audio engineers:
https://audiouniversityonline.com/ear-training-for-mixing-engineers/
Tomi Engdahl says:
WORLD’s MOST EXPENSIVE HEADPHONES | SENNHEISER HE-1 Review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y4GShAbEb4
This is it. No higher mountain to climb. An in depth review into the HE-1.
https://en-us.sennheiser.com/sennheiser-he-1
Tomi Engdahl says:
Why HiFi systems sound better at night
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydkIi6zF2Kk
It’s a curious phenomena, but HiFi system do sound better at night. Paul walks us through some of the reasons why that is.
Viewer comments:
Hi Paul.
You’ve touched on the quality of power, day vs. night, and how the quality increases, generally, at night. One thing you have mentioned in the past is that line voltage generally goes up at night for the same reasons.
But what do you think will be the result of the looming switch over from ICE vehicles to full EVs, when many, many more people will be plugging in at night to charge their vehicles. I can see the sag becoming a real issue at night.
I agree Sir. I also feel we hear better at night because that is how we are made. Like all other animals, we still need to be aware of our surroundings even though we need sleep. Ever watch your young dog, cat or rabbit while they sleep? The ears are at attention! Its a defense mechanism. Recently I have wondered about noise that the sun may create. Anyway, listening to music at night sure is a great way to end the day!
Yup, lower noise floor equals higher fidelity. You just end up hearing more at night
In adition to what paul has said. The speed of sound also changes as the temp and humidity change which affects many things including crosover freqency’s room modes etc. PA systems in the 90″s used to have meterological probes for out door concerts to compensate for the change. In my country sound travels much further as at night the air gets more dense an night than during the day due to the 15-20 celcius drop.
not only the speed of sound but also the way it propagates in the room
I strongly believe the humidity, temperature and changes in speed of sound are the main reasons for the great improvement between day and night listening.
So the question now is: If you drop the temperature of the AC in your listening room to 10 Celsius (50 Fahrenheit) will it sound better? Will a humidifier make a difference? lol
Does your hi-fi sound better at sea level or like where I am at 1.8km (1.1mile up)? My car goes 30‰ faster at sea level so my hifi should sound 30% better then.
As a system engineer of live sound systems, I have experienced this almost everytime while doing live shows.
Good night Sir. That is true and I think that we feel more relaxed at nights and so our focus is just on the music that we are playing and not other stuff. Thanks for finding the time to make these videos.
I’ve never experienced this whatsoever so right now I’m thinking this is more placebo, environment than anything, unless you have some serious daytime power issues that would impact things meaningfully.
So you are almost deaf, what a pity…
In my case I strongly believe it is the ambient noise level. My system sounds better at night and I can hear subtle details better until my wife steps into the room.
I also notice that music sounds different psychologically if in a dark room than in a normally lit room at night, even on the same system at the same settings.
I have just found that vibrational isolation is critically important for a digital front end. Digital clocks (as in C D transports) are especially sensitive to vibration from speakers and from that busy world that you refer to Paul. I think the “mains” problem issue is not so significant in causing jitter. Turn tables obviously also suffer from vibrational energy.
Tomi Engdahl says:
HI-FI Myth, Break-in? Audio discussion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQ6Ix07Edss
Tomi Engdahl says:
Amplifying emotions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlkStERKHi4
Music and its faithful reproduction in the home is all about eliciting emotions. Paul helps us understand how.
Viewer comments:
The emotional reaction is why I listen to music to begin with. Great episode! Your little Sprout 100 amplifier does a great job with engagement, by the way; that thing is FUN!
It all depends on what flavor of sound moves you. Figure that out and try to tailor your system to create that sound. I’m a metal head, so I like presence and guitar crunchiness as well as kicking mid bass for those double bass drums. I have purchased gear that has transparency, sparkle and slam. I finally got my system to sound how I wanted it. Speakers remained the same but going from a Class D amp to an A/B and to a very transparent DAC, as well as adding in a BBE Sonic Maximixer has brought me to my audio Nirvana. When I started my system was everything I hated, flat and dull. I completely solved the problem by changing electronics alone, speakers remained the same. Good luck your journey.
I like the points you made about avoiding character in gear that is emotionally distracting and looking for “you are theredness”. I personally find that that can come through by having a natural (dare i say “analogue sound”) as well as having micro details shine through (eg the breath of the singer, the sound of the bow being run across the strings, etc).
Some older Tom waits albums spring to mind (blue valentine, small change) that bring both of these characters through…..(almost) regardless of the gear used
Sad that many people live their whole lives and never experienced the emotion from a great sounding audio system.
Many are satisfied with their cheap little five dollar Bluetooth speaker.
Right you are. When comparing and modifying gear, for me it is much more easy to remember my feelings listening to the music than remembering the sound of the gear
Tomi Engdahl says:
Are Expensive XLR Cables Worth It? (FAQ Series)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0TlrpVCRgw
What’s the difference between an $8 and $50 XLR cable? Do $50 mic cables make your recording sound better? Why pay so much for a cable? In this video, I address those questions and demonstrate the difference in shielding and test if there is any difference in tone based on the XLR cable you’re using.
00:00 – Introduction
00:15 – An Answer To The Question
01:06 – Build Quality
02:41 – Shielding Performance Measurement
06:05 – Noise Floor Measurement
07:50 – Do Cables Affect the Tone of Recording?
10:05 – Warranty of Cables
10:42 – Why Are Cables More Expensive?
11:05 – Who Should Buy Expensive Cables?
13:30 – Outro
NOTE 1: The frequency response measurements only cover 20Hz – 20kHz which is all most podcast producers and at home studio producers will encounter. The results may differ if you record high resolution with the intention of slowing down the audio. For most people 20Hz – 20kHz is more than sufficient.
NOTE 2: For non-reviews I typically record unprocessed audio and process in post. Here I mistakenly recorded the processed audio for my spoken word portions, and that processing was not good, so this is not a good representation of the sound of this mic. Sorry about that.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Can you combine multiple XLR cables?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA4C2HLx8Hc
XLR balanced interconnects are the best sounding connections between stereo equipment when high performance audio is concerned. But what if you do not have the proper length of cable? Can you connect two or more?
Viewer comments:
I think it largely comes down to the quality of the connectors and the consistency of impedance in the cable segments.
If the connectors are top notch and the impedance is consistent along the run, the two segments effectively become one longer run with the combined cable characteristics (resistance, inductance, parasitic capacitance) of the two segments. As always, interconnect quality counts. My preference is to build interconnects from scratch with excellent connectors and overspecified cable. The Grateful Dead used a lot of Belden #83393 (single pair 20AWG tinned copper with aluminized polyester shield) and that’s what fed Jerry’s McIntosh MC-2300.
This man knows his stuff. You can answer that question from an engineering perspective. I would not recommend connecting cheap low quality xlr cables in a chain though, only the high quality ones in my opinion. Check the wire gauge, shielding, soldering and connectors for a good high quality cable.
Do keep in mind that the XLR Cable and connections is an almost 70-year old design:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLR_connector
Tomi Engdahl says:
Cheap pots in expensive preamps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCzcX0Qa-YA
There are preamps costing in excess of $10,000 using low cost $20 volume control pots. Does it make sense to buy them or should they be shunned?
Viewer comments:
That vanilla analogy was a great way to explain what being an audiophile is all about. The quest for finding the purest tasting vanilla is like hearing the purest sounding audio. Unfortunately, some of us can only afford the bargain bin. Haha. Also, I’d like to add, How do you know what you have is the purest? Either you witness the harvest/recording or someone tells you it is. You have to make up your own mind if you like what you are tasting/hearing or want to to test different companies to find the flavor you like. Because after all, taste/hearing is subjective.
Excellent explanation of many misunderstood concepts! You’re a valuable resource Paul and thank you for educating us on the finer points of what really matters. Cheers!
I’m not an engineer but what I understand is that the tolerances of each component by themselves aren’t really significant to make an audible difference. It’s when a huge number of components combined (like hundreds) that it starts to have audible differences. For instance, in a passive electric guitar, 10% tolerance of the tone and volume pot would most probable be not audible for most people (guitar tone snobs would of course disagree), but in an amplifier, where there are hundreds of components, each of their tolerances combined would absolutely make an audible difference, even for non-audiophiles.
The volume control, regardless of type, is just another element in the signal path. As stated in the video, it is a cumulative effect of all the elements that ultimately produce “the sound” of a component.
FYI; Alps produces a range of “pots” with prices going into four figures!
In the end it’s all about priorities. I’ve heard STK module amps outperform pretty seriously built discrete amps more than once. I’ve heard class D outperform tubes. There’s so much that can go right or wrong in an amp. I have an Ayre K3 preamp myself and I am sure the pot helps, but I also know that it’d still sound like the Ayre I love with an Alps pot :D.
That’s exactly it… at different positions, especially lower volumes, pots will have varying degraded qualities. I personally would not buy anything high-end with a pot at this point in my audio journey. Step relay / ladder controls are much better especially for low to modest volume listening.
Thanks Paul. You have lots of experience with high end audio and I listen to your advice. Additionally it is even better if the differences which you describe can be measured. I know many audio signal differences can be measured. How about those pots? Is it possible to measure the difference between a good and a very good pot and/or your variably gain solutions?
a scope null test will give you the answer … Take the signal going in, level match it with the signal coming out, take the signal coming out and subtract … anything left is either distortion or a level mismatch.
I really wish Paul hadn’t tried to defend the proposition of putting a $10 pot in a $10,000 preamp! If I am going to spend serious money on a device then I expect the manufacturer to do better in every critical aspect. After the power supply, the volume control is arguably the most important part of a preamp. The whole signal goes through it, and get’s literally throttled. Paul is the one who taught me the importance of a volume control. Now he says “no problem” to the idea of using a cheap one on a deluxe high end device. I can see how that view serves manufacturers but not how it could ever serve buyers.
The important thing to keep in mind is that these perceived differences in sound between different potentiometers is neither good nor bad. Trying to rationalize those differences are.
Audiophiles get very wrapped up in the costs of individual parts when they should ask why should a pot cost more than X? Surely there are exotic parts out there but why spend that kind of money? It’s like saying you wouldn’t trust a steel screw because it’s only $.10. The question shouldn’t be can I trust a part that is X dollars, it should be is the part made with quality, and competence to serve the purpose it was made for?
This video should be pinned. If I may take license to summarize Paul: just like every musical instrument has a slightly different sound (even like instruments and same brands of like instruments), every audio playback component is an instrument, because even the constituent components of the components contribute to the nonlinearity of the system. Some systems sound better at lower gain. Some (especially guitar amplifiers) sound better at higher gain. Nothing in this world is perfect. Spending $10,000 on a preamp is merely an indulgence in moving closer to that asymptote of audio perfection.
Nothing wrong with a alps blue velvet pot, alps make some great pots,
I beg to differ I have a Goldpoint Passive Pre amp and I would say it’s Straight wire with gain.Comes with 24 or 48 stepped attenuator He’s a small Company in California. I even think he has his schematics on his web site. I love the granularity of a 48 stepped attenuator on my unit
Unfortunately there was no mention of stepped attenuation. I’d have like to have heard about that. Good question to ask: pot vs stepped?
Stepped attenuators are probably the best alternatives to a pot but they too have a sound to them.
In Japan they have deluxe Alps models that look like high end watches..
I can see how pots change the sound, but is it a matter of HiFi life or death were talking here? Or is it more like haveing an older car with crank windows compared to one with power? Sure hand cranking sucks, but is it really gonna ruin your driving experience?
ALPS are very coloring pots to the point every product has that pot sound like the other product ,, beside that it is too dark and low resolution pot , i would highly advise to try few amps or pre amps with the same and different pot to decide if you can hear its effect on the sound ,, for me i would never buy a product with ALPS pot unless i am looking for its coloration
Which pot instead?
The price isn’t the criterion … the real test is “will it do the job” … if the answer is “yes”, it doesn’t matter if it’s a $1.00 part or a $500.00 part.
Isn’t the question whether the more expensive part improves the sound (not to mention the durability)? A $299 integrated amp from Emotiva with a pair of Elac Debut Speakers ($299) will “do the job.” We buy PS Audio products (and their like) to get an much higher level of performance.
Stuff like resistors, capacitors, pots, diodes, even chips, etc. really don’t have their own sound. So the simplest test — will it do the job — is perfectly adequate.
You can’t hear the difference in resistors, if you think you can prove it in a DBT. If you think the pot is cheap, you can buy 0.1% resistors very inexpensively, check Mouser if you think I’m wrong. I’ve tested those Alps pots. For all they are claimed to be I found the linearity of their stereo pots at the low end is horrible and that you can hear. You think you can hear the difference in 1% compared to 0.1% resistors? You can’t, again, if you think you can prove it in a DBT. Audio is voodoo today, too many ridiculous claims that aren’t backed with science.
It is not the % you listento, MF sound different to carbon for sure. Resolution vs warm sound
If I can not distinguish the difference between two resistors on test instruments that measure well beyond human hearing you can not tell the difference between those two resistors listening through them. Period! I’ve checked resistors and pots with instruments that cost more than most systems, it’s the king’s new clothes, someone anecdotally claims they can hear differences and the lemmings run into the sea.
Stereo reviewers CAN’T tell differences in DBT’s, I just had a long debate with John Atkinson of Stereophile who relies on subjectivity to review components because, and this has been documented, he can’t tell the differences in components. Imagine if he did DBTing on two amps one costing $3k and one costing $100k and he couldn’t tell the difference between them. What would happen to his magazine? It would collapse, manufacturers who pay the bill for that magazine would be running like fleas from a dead dog.
Audio is accountable to science just like any other electronic device, the only difference is in the function of that device. I’ve never had a manufacturer say run this for a 100 hours before it works its best. Instruments work from the day I get them to the several years I use them basically the same. Even after checking tolerances years later they are still well beyond human hearing.
Have you checked metal film and carbon resistors on instruments? the reason we went to metal film is because they hold tolerances better than carbon resistors, not their ability to resist the flow of electrons or that there is a difference in the characteristics of that flow.
So to sum it up, companies put any price they want and we are the guinea pigs buying it for thousands.
I mean, welcome to capitalism
Instead of a pot having ….flavor…is not the ideal that the pot be neutral ? …..no flavor ? Can such a animal be manufactured ….
They’re made every day … most pots/resistors have no audible signature at all.
(They wouldn’t be much use if they did)
Pots are the best till thay get dirty
Tomi Engdahl says:
AUDIOPHILES: It’s OK to love gear more than music + Beatles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZuivmECRdM
Gear love is a guilty pleasure for some audiophiles, but…
Viewer comments:
Gear love is OK. I’m an engineer so I appreciate gear, the design, the specifications, the capabilities as much as anyone, but at the end of the day they are tools to arrive at hearing music. It is sort of like people being appreciative of say certain paint brushes or techniques for pulling canvases tight when the end game goal is observing a piece of artwork.
I love recordings. The great and not so great. The different and odd are my favorites. There are plenty to check out. I have a modest system set up correctly and it sounds fantastic. I love gear, but I don’t buy any. I appreciate what I can’t own.
Like many of us I am a tinkerer. I don’t care whether it’s a car, a dishwasher, or an audio system. Throwing money at a situation never defeats a poor setup. On the other hand, when you get things right, it’s magical.
Hey Steve. Great subject to present to the audience. I have always been a music lover, even though I am also clearly seduced by fabulous audio equipment and I preface that by saying great music moves me in a way that nothing else quite does. Sometimes to tears.
Seems like this topic regarding if you love equipment so much, maybe you might not be a true music lover, but clearly you can be in both camps. At the end of the day, as someone once said, “If you want to have a happy life, what other people say about you is none of YOUR business”…..
I’m definitely a music-first audiophile. I’ll listen on just about anything really, if the performance is good it can grab you no matter the quality. But I’d rather listen on a good pair of headphones if I have the choice because I no longer have the space for a good set of speakers. But it’s the music that really counts to me, first and foremost.
As my Hi-Fi improved, my taste in music diversified. Having realised there was a direct link between how much I enjoy music and the quality of the gear I unashamedly pursued the best system I could afford. Then I learnt enough to break open the boxes and dive inside, making improvements for far less cost. So, yes, to me the gear is extremely important as it gives me the most enjoyment from many forms of music.
I love music and it is enhanced by having better gear. I’m on a budget, so the gear I have is still pretty modest compared to many. Love the gear because it makes listening better.
I’ve had lots of jobs around music and I can tell you without hesitation that music today depends on gear. Unless you are listening live to period correct chamber music or at a monastery listening to a cappella chanting then you can’t escape the importance of gear. I’ve been a roadie, a sound reinforcement sales and installation person, a live sound mixer and music instrument salesperson (I’m a brass instrument and guitar player). Of course the gear exists to serve the music and/or the musician but you can’t have one without the other. I’m a serial monogamist when it comes to gear for music playback. I can’t stand tinkering about with multiple pieces of redundant gear. I have one set of speakers, one set of sources, and one set of electronics. Of course I have a desktop set up in my office and my main system in my living room, but they stay where they are and never the twain shall meet. I may replace one or another of the components at a time but I don’t have an extra set of speakers, sources, pre amps, DACs, or amps waiting to be used while they collect dust. If you have the time to swap stuff in and out then more power to ya, but I lost my resolve to store, move, hook up, dial in and play gear when I gave up working in live sound.
I enjoy picking up gear (new toys!) But for me it is primarily about finding a solid “great enough” playback point and then focusing on listening to all my music.
Hey, Steve, here’s my acid test: if you can still enjoy music from your phone via a Bluetooth speaker, you can relax: you haven’t fallen into the trap of loving the gear more than the music!
I’m a gearhead with a particular bent for headphone collecting – after 50 pairs I stopped counting – and vintage silver-face electronics. Unlike many vintage fans, though, CD is my weapon of choice rather than vinyl. I’m old enough to remember feeling the epiphany with my first CD player (a Marantz CD56, which is still my preferred source), and for me the ideal is a digital source via a vintage amp – after all, that’s what CD was designed to be heard through!
One advantage that collectors have is wide experience of different sound signatures, and that throws up some interesting insights. For example, I love my Luxman L-114A and L-113A amps, but if they died I could live happily with the almost identical sound from the lowly Trio(Kenwood) KA-60. Also, the ‘classic warm vintage sound’ is just a cliché: the Sansui AU-217 II amp and NAD 7020 and Tungsram/3F/Dansk T3535 receivers have it, but many vintage amps strike a better (to my ears) balance between warmth and detail, while Sony’s TA-F55, Philips’ F4516 and the Technics SU-V7 are pure detail-hounds to match many more modern amps.
But for me the biggest revelation of all is a pair of big Trio KH-51 headphones dating all the way back to 1971. Nothing else can touch them for bass extension, yet they don’t sound bass-heavy at all. (They come into their own with the sub-bass of music like EDM, which didn’t even exist when they were made.) They’re a unique open-backed design using rigid external leather reflectors to reinforce the low end; they look weird and probably measure all over the place, but they’re super-comfy and sound unbelievably natural. A real discovery – nothing else looks or sounds like them!
This reminds me of people that put others down for collecting movies or CD’s. Nobody puts down people who collect books. I guess book collecting is a more “appropriate” hobby.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Painful “Audiophile” TikToks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WktqKD5QD8k
THE BEST GAMING HEADPHONES don’t matter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxr_7_JJYk
Tomi Engdahl says:
I said I wouldn’t cry… – Abyss Diana ULTIMATE Audio Experience
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT3SInHr9ck
Linus is moved to tears when he tries out a true audiophile headphone setup – complete with amps and DACs – with special guest DMS!
Tomi Engdahl says:
Increasing the Main Filter Cap in an Amplifier – What Happens?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47aDmfMwpCw
The Marantz 1060 Integrated Amp is one of those classic amplifiers that people add larger filter caps for precisely this reason. The problem is this particular amp has no speaker relay so you get a bigger thump when the power is turned on, which can damage the speakers.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Are Expensive XLR Cables Worth It? (FAQ Series)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0TlrpVCRgw
What’s the difference between an $8 and $50 XLR cable? Do $50 mic cables make your recording sound better? Why pay so much for a cable? In this video, I address those questions and demonstrate the difference in shielding and test if there is any difference in tone based on the XLR cable you’re using.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Are braided power cables better?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Df7YyBI1M
Power cables are an important contributor to the performance of high end audio systems. Does their construction matter? What benefits do braided cables bring relative to standard parallel cables?
Viewer comments:
By that logic wouldn’t you already have inductance resistance in the electrical supply between the fuse box and the wall outlet ? This being the case a braided cable should have minimal effect since the issue has already been created in the wall. As long as you’re not running super long cables. Maybe you should just hard wire the power amps directly to the fuse box through conduit.
better directly power from a dedicated generator/power plant
no, this is still not enough.
audiophiles will tell you the differences between coal power, hydropower, solar power and nuclear power
braiding cables has been known to work for ages… just look at every other old tube guitar amplifier from the 50s and 60s it reduced noise and hum back in the day just like they do today! They would not bother doing it otherwise.
No use for mains power cables though. Which is the topic of this video… Nobody is using braided power cables in any application but snake oil audio fool audio..
Tomi Engdahl says:
Braiding cables has been known to work for ages to work somewhat better on some cases just two straight parallel wires. But is is not a silver bullet solution that solves the problem. Many braided cable constructions are unshielded. This braiding might work OK for power cables and speaker cables – where it makes any noticeable difference is another question (I have not notices any differences or benefit on my limited testing done over years).
Unshielded braded construction is a really pretty idea if you plan to use that for interconnection cables that has technical disadvantages without bringing any benefits (there are many better known cable constructions for that). Here is my writing on braided interconnection cables and why they are a bad idea.
https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2010/03/19/unshielded-rca-cable-is-bad-design/
Tomi Engdahl says:
Braiding cables has been known to work for ages to work somewhat better on some cases just two straight parallel wires. But is is not a silver bullet solution that solves the problem. Many braided cable constructions are unshielded. This braiding might work OK for power cables and speaker cables – where it makes any noticeable difference is another question (I have not notices any differences or benefit on my limited testing done over years).
Unshielded braded construction is a really pretty idea if you plan to use that for interconnection cables that has technical disadvantages without bringing any benefits (there are many better known cable constructions for that). Here is my writing on braided interconnection cables and why they are a bad idea.
https://www.epanorama.net/blog/2010/03/19/unshielded-rca-cable-is-bad-design/
Tomi Engdahl says:
Why aren’t speakers designed to go against the wall?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1mpUw-Ud_0
Few homes are accepting of a pair of loudspeaker out into the room. Though they sound better, they don’t work with most people’s lives. Find out how PS Audio intends to solve this problem.
Viewer comments:
Peter Snell did a fantastic job of combining excellent soundstage capabilities with near wall positioning with the model A/III. One of the best speakers ever made in my humble opinion.
If you love in the average size UK home, then Klaus’ remark about us all listening while in the centre of the room is more accurate than you think. Our homes are tiny.
Paul, Thanks for the walking back and forth demo in this video, it truly made me realize just how important the placement is!! I could tell a HUGE difference even on youtube! My speakers are away from the wall a good 4 or so feet if for no other reason than I want to be able to get behind them and my system to change things out and check components etc. Great video!!
Most active monitors nowadays have options to compensate for wall distance. The lack of this functionality in the audiophile community is baffling. Hoping you guys are able to get it working properly for your speakers.
The existence of that compensation does not mean you get the same quality with speakers close to the wall. For proper monitoring, the monitor speakers must be away from the wall, or the wall must have proper (very expensive – money consuming and space consuming) bass treatment. This is the standard view in pro-audio world, not “the audiophile community.”
In order to get the SBIR dip well below the audible range you’d need to be unreasonably far from any wall so in any realistic situation, you should be compensating for it. Moving your speakers as close to the wall as possible will bring up the SBIR dip to a point where you can easily treat it. The rest of the coupling to the modes on that axis isn’t too difficult to treat either.
Listen to 2:17 of this Dynaudio Pro video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8geEiJwj98 This video is for people in pro-audio where some people do not like consumer “audiophile” or “hi-end” stuff. Note that the product in the video has more than the usual bass control you mentioned. It has DSP. However, the manufacturer is still against placing the product too close to the walls.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Do ADCs have a sound?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nreHIKQ7T2k
Tomi Engdahl says:
Are audiophiles predominately men?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6a-AbOdftmo
What percentage of audiophiles are men vs. women? Paul dares to give us an answer.
Tomi Engdahl says:
You are wrong about speakers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GquD07UhtG8
This theoretical physicist is up in arms over Paul’s stance that speakers are the most important elements in the stereo chain.
Viewer comments:
A $300 CD player is far closer to a $3000 CD player than speakers at those same 2 prices are to each other.
The hardest job in creating good sound is in turning an electrical signal into pressure waves in the air. It is asking a lot of mechanical, inertial devices to do that job. On the other hand, even cheap amplifiers can do a reasonable job of simply increasing the amplitude of the signal. I have never been able to afford top quality equipment, and over 50 years went through all sorts of combinations, from a home made quadraphonic amp to loudspeaker cabinets with different drive units in left and right. Aaaargh! When I finally had enough money to buy some decent speakers, the sound quality jumped up a mile. Replacing the amplifiers made a much smaller difference. I agree with Paul – if you can, get decent speakers first.
this is the key reason . its the hardest job , its the most critical to our human brain . when you think of all the mechanical , physical and electronic variables that goes into making a box with vibrating circles sound like a completely different object of size , space , composition its quite impressive we can do what we can do .
Absolutely. The speakers are the final thing delivering the sound to your ears. And like you said, they have the hardest job in the system in accurately trying to convert the signal from the amp.
I’ve chased the audio rainbow for a long time, and my most profound realization is that it’s all an illusion anyway. The moments of most enjoyment and the moments of greatest frustration are unrelated to the gear. Reproduced sound never sounds quite like the real thing, so just enjoy the music. (this from the guy who has 3 of every component and still wants to believe there is a magic place of perfect reproduction)
A profound statement, and so very true it is. The worst HiFi component is the human ear. Sure, the mind, psyche and brain can compensate to a degree, but we all gravitate toward enjoyment of what we are accustomed to hearing. And a very good speaker will do a very poor job of masking imperfections elsewhere in the chain, until the listener gets used to it . Paul cites camera equipment in his “budget” analogy. In photography, there is a plethora of gearheads and equipment snobs, who will happily explain away their budgets and fabricate excuses for doing so, but it all boils down to technique, implementation, and finally, perception, regardless of equipment costs, ratings, and reviews. Even with live orchestral or acoustic folk performances, we must deal with set, setting, and acoustics, which will ultimately determine mood. There is no way around it – not even with millions of dollars to spend on equipment.
Not at all. Some equipment sucks the life out of music. Others make every song a joy to listen to. I too have chased the audio rainbow and found that simply throwing money at the problem does not give you what you want, and most equipment disappoints me. However I have found a few gems from $15 to $several thousand that give me great joy whenever I listen to them. Perfect reproduction is the illusion because no music is recorded to a universal reference.
I agree to a degree. I once bought cheap speakers for my kitchen, as I don’t use it that often so I thought, why not, some cheap 100euro speakers. It ANNOYED the crap out of me. Voices too bright, no low end, flat, it was just poop. Then I bought some slightly more expensive Infinity speakers, more powerfull amp, and the difference was night and day. Good speakers you don’t notice, bad speakers you do. My wife doesn’t care so much, but I get annoyed easily when hearing a song (or movie, whatever) through a crap system and missing just parts of the song. Like those bluetooth speakers. All of a sudden there is no bass anymore, mids are boosted and the highs are muffled, or there seems to be a gap between drivers. Same with a subwoofer, you miss it when you are used to hearing content with a sub. I won’t notice a big difference to be honest between a 2000 EUR speaker and 10.000 EUR, except on high volume or very specific content, but don’t waste your time and life listening to crap speakers.
The loudspeakers being the greatest source of distortion in an audio system, it is only logical to pay attention and invest money so they won’t degrade the signal sent to them.
When sources were confined to vinyl or tape then getting the best you could afford would help minimise the degradation of the medium with repeated plays. Some of my first jazz LP’s were quickly destroyed by playing on a ‘radiogram’ auto-changer tracking at 13 grams. This was revealed when I bought my first ‘hi – fi’ components ! . Using Digital sources nullifies this argument. I agree with Paul because if you don’t have acceptably revealing speakers then you’ll never be able to hear the benefits of upgrading anything further up the chain. As Paul says many times, balance, component synergy is key. Take advice, listen to systems as a whole if you can. I appreciate that’s getting harder to do these days.
In a hifi system, the speaker has the greatest influence on the character of your system – this is where you have the greatest opportunity to tune the sound to your taste and listening environment. Improving the rest of the system improves the overall sound quality, whilst still maintaining the original character created by the speakers.
Well…and the room, of course
Simon Rae That’s right. But the sad thing is, A lot of these so called “Audiophiles” don’t seem to care about character, it’s just a never ending quest for “accurate reproduction”. These people do not understand music or the music industry. To hell with perfect reproduction, I want my music to sound good. I don’t want to hear every mistake made by the artist, recording team and mastering engineer. I don’t want to hear the flaws in the equipment used in the production. I want a system that makes everything sound great, no matter how much “colour” it needs to add to achieve that
I’ve heard it put this way: look for the best quality (usually, but doesn’t always mean the most $$$) and spend your best money in those components that convert the energy and thus information from one medium to another, because that’s where the most can go wrong.
That means loudspeakers (electrical > mechanical) and the phono cartridge (mechanical > electrical).
Then put your good money into the in-between components that will serve those ends to get the best out of them.
I was expecting a mention on the relative amount of distortion produced by each element of the chain. By far the room and the speakers produce the greatest distortions – I regularly see +- 10db – huge shifts. CD players or amplifiers producing 1db shifts in the audible spectrum (or even far less) would be thrown out at the design phase.
I believe that starting with great speakers is the best way to start also. You will notice more changes throughout the lifespan of your system if your speakers are able to show them. Paul hit it on the head when he suggested that if you have crappy speakers, your not going to notice any difference on changes to the source. The best way to appreciate incremental changes to a system is to start with great speakers.
The speaker has more variation in quality. It has the highest amount of “choke” on the quality. Another issue is that the quality of the source is unattainable unless someone has listened to the best system ever. In other words; physicist … go home … you are drunk. (Written by an engineer) Physicists focus mostly on interactions and hypothesis. Engineers focus mostly on quality of results. The world needs both.
Tomi Engdahl says:
How many drivers should a speaker have?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZNPYkuh7LI
There’s single driver, dual driver, triple driver loudspeakers. But how many drivers are best? If you didn’t care about costs how many drivers would make the perfect speaker?
Tomi Engdahl says:
Do speaker cone materials matter?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zX6Alq-5bms
There are hundreds of speaker cone material types. Do their differences matter?
Tomi Engdahl says:
Are braided power cables better?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Df7YyBI1M
It’s amazing the lengths which some hifi enthusiasts will go to, given that recording studios employ none of these overpriced gimmicks…
Everything you do or buy will make a difference, that’s physics for you. The question is though, will you hear it? But…….how good (and expensive) must your set be, how good of a recording and how good must your ears and room be? To i.e. hear a difference between the same cable being braided or not?
braiding cables has been known to work for ages… just look at every other old tube guitar amplifier from the 50s and 60s it reduced noise and hum back in the day just like they do today! They would not bother doing it otherwise.
No use for mains power cables though. Which is the topic of this video… Nobody is using braided power cables in any application but snake oil audio fool audio..
I’m sorry, but every electronic engineer worth its salt would tell you that it doesn’t make any measurable difference. The truth hurts
Tomi Engdahl says:
When there is one thing that I hate is when audiophiles talk about huge differences. If there is a huge differences then I guess you hear it right away and the difference if obvious like changing a pair of bad speakers to a pair of good speakers. And now you, Paul, tell us that with using PS audio amps and PS audio power generators those braided power cables make a huge difference? Really?
I agree that there’s a problem with some audiophiles and nuanced language. A huge difference is something that should be immediately apparent to anyone that hears it, and the difference between very different speakers is something that falls into this category as that’s by far the most diverse part of the chain (if we leave the room out of it).
When you use such words for something with such subtle differences that cables bring you are automatically seen as shady. Those that feel that cables certainly do make a difference should think that you’re overcompensating with your wording, which comes across as dishonest, and those that don’t believe cables make a difference as long a they are properly made will dig their heels in even further and think those that speak positively about cables are just hyperbolic liars. Whatever the case the language hurts your position towards any but those that also use such misleading statements.
Nuance is very important. Audiophiles tend to understand that when it comes to audio so it shouldn’t be too hard to grasp the same concept for communication. If you’re fine with calling a difference between good power cables huge it’s like saying that it doesn’t matter if the bass in your system is really bloated, you can still hear what music is being played.
Thousands of dollars of fancy bulky AC cables……but at the end of the it’s all about the synergy of all of the hardware components it’s connected to and your ears…..lol…….just wow. What an embarrassing video topic to involve yourself in.
Source: Discussion at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Df7YyBI1M
Tomi Engdahl says:
Let’s give credit where credit is due. Ray Kimber did not build wire braiding machines, he bought them, probably used which is fine. Those devices have been around since before electricity to make steel cables like on the Brooklyn Bridge. The twisting of audio conductors goes back to the 1920s if not before. Look at the analog telephone system which was largely designed in the 1930s. Every circuit uses a twisted pair. Look at CAT5 cable, strip a USB cable. Yes twisting of wires certainly benefits high end audio. But it is not some great scientific breakthrough discovered by audiophile cable manufactures. it been around since the dawn of electronics. And XLR cables are most certainly made with braided wires, at least in the professional arena.
Tomi Engdahl says:
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Df7YyBI1M
All of this might make some sense IF the ‘quality’ of the mains waveform entering the AC inlet on your equipment mattered ONE IOTA. It doesn’t however, so don’t waste your time !
The AC waveform can be distorted to hell (50/60 Hz supplies are often of around 2.5% total harmonic distortion to begin with) and regularly contain all sorts of conducted and radiated noise from various appliances, from ‘inductive kick-back’ that results from load switching to conducted interference from thyristor/triac light dimmers to RF picked up from large power radio transmitters. Far from ‘pure’ in the first place ! It’s also connected via the cheapest copper (sometimes aluminium) that the power utility could buy and usually a fairly crappy connector of dubious merit (esp in the USA).
Once it goes through a mains transformer, is rectified and then ‘filtered’ to make some approximation of DC (which IS what happens) any idea of the ‘purity’ of the original AC power is simply irrelevant and nonsensical. Even more nonsensical in a switching type power supply where it’s rectified, stored, turned into squarewaves, rectified once more and stored again !
The idea that the last few feet of cable attaching your equipment to the wall socket COULD make any difference is pure MADNESS too. Remember it’s NOT the AC that powers the electronics . The electronics runs from DC !
It IS true that creating very ‘pure’ DC from the power supply DOES make a difference, often quite significantly so. My own ‘best’ power supplies produce around 50 MICROVOLTS of audio band noise ONLY. A lot of professional audio uses remote DC power supplies so that the line frequency AC doesn’t even enter the equipment. But the AC itself is ENTIRELY unimportant It matters not one jot !
All that plus … once rectified and filtered only a tiny tip of the AC waveform is actually used to refresh the capacitors, all the rest is simply ignored by the rectifier diodes.
Another theoretical response from a guy who has not tried an A-B comparison.
In theory, you may be correct. In real life, in a quality Hi-Fi system, you are 110% WRONG.
If you have a quality system and are using the cheap factory power cords, then you should take the time to try a set of braided power cords and hear if they do make a difference or improvement. Until you do so, you are just another keyboard warrior wasting bandwidth with your unintelligent opinions. I have done the A-B comparisons with my system and there was a noticeable difference. FYI, you don’t need to spend thou$and$ on power cords. There are very good ones available for under a hundred that offer the same improvements in sound.
So, all those guys who spent 4 and 8 years to become engineers and technicians are wrong … and you alone know better?
Science is irrelevant…
This is a religion.
Sadly, I’m forced to agree.
Good thing I’m an atheist.
Please list the power cables that you used in your listening test, to conclude that power cables make no difference.
Please also list all of your stereo’s components that were used in your listening test (speakers, amps, pre-amp, DAC, transport, phono-amp, tone-arm, cartridge, etc), and room treatments.
As to:
“The idea that the last few feet of cable attaching your equipment to the wall socket COULD make any difference is pure MADNESS too”
Remove your shower head. It is MADNESS to believe that water that traveled for miles would make any difference once it reaches your bathroom when using a show head.
I am 74 years of age. Had my first stereo when Buddy Holly was still alive. I know every Hifi Guru, they all me. I have private commercial chats with electronic engineers. Paul, any sufficient shielded power cable is good enough. Everything else is snake oil! Or better BS!
No it is not BS. It is good money in cable salesmen pockets.
Please list the power cables that you used in your listening test, to conclude that power cables Paul is using, vs standard shielded power cables, is snake oil or BS.
Please also list all of your stereo’s components that were used in your listening test (speakers, amps, pre-amp, DAC, transport, phono-amp, tone-arm, cartridge, etc), and room treatments.
They won’t. They are using stock cables and can’t imagine their systems improving.
When I ask people to list the equipment in their listening test (to show their work), one of three things happen:
1) They never reply.
As such, their “assertion” of quality cables being BS is the actual BS (their claim is what is the BS).
2) They reply with “they do not have to conduct a listening test”, because of this study and that person’s engineering degree, etc.
I have yet to see a product come to market that was only reviewed, in theory, and never actually tested; never actually used in its final form.
Cars have safety designs built into them, that started on the drawing board. Mathematicians and expert engineers design and build air-bags, cabin enclosures, bumpers, etc. They all appear sound on paper. But the car companies still crash test vehicles, and “surprise”, they have to make changes after discovering that all of their “on paper” theories missed things.
But when it comes to cables, the audio trolls never do the crash testing. They never actually listen to that which they are bashing. They claim that the lab’s testing is infallible; that they covered everything, and it is humanly impossible for them to have missed anything.
3) They claim that this lab or that lab has done conclusive testing. Note that that does not mean that it was conclusive, any more than them saying that the Earth is flat, based on conclusive testing. They never list the stereo components that the lab used for their testing — because they never did a test with a quality stereo.
The cable naysayers with the loudest claims never put up, and they never shut up.
I find it amusing to make them twist in the wind with their moronic claims, of which they never tested; they never sat down with the gear that they claim is snake oil. They know so much that isn’t so.
I notice a trend in the replies. The guys who have actually tried braided power cords and done an A-B comparison ALL say they are worth it. The only guys who say they do not work are the guys who have never tried. How can they say it doesn’t work if they never tried an A-B comparison?
I like Paul but when audiophiles say “I don’t know why but this thing makes my system sound better” it’s just placebo effect. I have no doubt that there are people who think that red cables sound better then black cables.
Anyone wanting some science on why see this: https://youtu.be/2m1mIzGq_2o Note, however, that at powerline and audio frequencies, the cord from your toaster will work just as good as the fancy cables.
“It matters” and yet all the most expensive brands of equipment, including PS Audio, sell their equipment with off the shelf, regular old, mass produced, AC cables. If it really made a difference, they’d change that practice! I side with people that don’t have a buck to make in the sale of cables, Floyd Toole and Siegfried Linkwitz. Neither of them believe in using exotic cables. They do look cool though and I wish they’d just admit that that is the attraction. It’d be so much more genuine.
You need not spend thousands on power cords, there are very good power cords for under $100 that DO offer audible improvements. Almost all offer a 30 or 60 day free return policy. Try them and see for yourself. As you can see in the replies here, everyone who has tried them says they work. Only the people who have never tried them say they don’t work. How can someone say they don’t work if they haven’t tried? Why don’t OEMs include them? Cost is one reason. The competition isn’t making the expenditure so why bother? Several amp makers DO recommend them; that is something to consider.
So is the building wiring behind the wall also special braided cable? Or is it regular NMB / BX. Why does a few feet of special power cable at the end of what could be up to hundreds of feet of parallel building wire behind the walls to the distribution panel make a difference? It is a serious question.
The last mile counts more than the whole length, if no better choices. Using (multiple) solid braided coil wires is the way. Plus shielding with aluminium foils+braided aluminium shields and solid coil wires embedded in teflon coil can make happiness. Hearing is believing. Paul is right, when his top notched components (& well designed+heavy investment listening room) can demonstrate the differences but “not majority of other common casual users”. Isn’t he right? Most important, Paul has a pair of well trained ears, plus his professional friends and coworkers, right?
Hey , let’s say that last mile bit is true, then having that 1, 2 or 3 ft. of fancy cable still only represents 0.02, 0.04 or 0.06% of that all crucial mile. And those percentages are even rounded up!
In my experience they do work and make a difference. The most obvious difference is that they reduce noise from the network. Think about it like a filter.
Tomi Engdahl says:
What do input capacitors provide on amplifiers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAbwVfUM1NA
Known as blocking caps, Paul explains the function of input capacitors on amplifiers and preamplifiers.Known as blocking caps, Paul explains the function of input capacitors on amplifiers and preamplifiers.
Viewer comments:
In tube amps the coupling caps block HIGH voltage DC from the grids of the next tube in the chain.,in the end without them the output transformer will ultimately go up in smoke. You should see zero volts DC at the grids or the caps are garbage.
Paul basically got it right … But let me take that one step further … Unless you can guarantee there is no DC on your input signals AND your amplifier input bias points are at 0 volts, you really do need to put a capacitor in series with the input to keep everything sane … even with servo type circuitry.
Some time back, I had a particularly interesting service call…
“My amplifier is hot as blazes and my woofer quit working” …
These are the tell-tale signs of a DC offset problem as Paul described.
When I got there and checked the system was sitting about 30 volts positive, the woofer voice coil has burned open and the power amplifier was bouncing in and out of protection mode, getting ready to burn itself out. Then almost immediately after I unplugged the pre-amp everything returned to sanity, except for the fried voice coil.
It turns out the “pro” pre-amp my client was using produced a +3 volt offset on the balanced output to signal “on / off” to it’s matching power amp. Now in a balanced input this is a safe thing to do, but this system was using only one side of the balanced output on the pre-amp and it was saturating the unbalanced inputs to the amplifier… causing a DC offset at the speaker and cooking a perfectly good woofer.
So, the moral of the story is … unless you have absolute control over previous stages you should always include DC isolation in everything you design or build.
Like Paul I try to keep that low-end roll off pretty low, generally I will calculate a -3db point at about 4hz. The usually means about a 20uf non-polarized cap, for amps with 10k input impedance.
You can also have a capacitor on the input or output on the preamplifier.
and you have a capacitor on the input of the amplifier. You will then double the weakening of the sound.
you should not have too much value or too little value. the capacitor should also protect against high frequencies. Many use 10uf.
the problem is that you do not have room for polypropylene capacitor but only electrolyte which is a not so good type of capacitor.
What i have done on one of my amplifiers is to put a good capacitor on the actual signal wire with shrink tubing and aluminum foil and shrink tubing over at the end. Temember that aluminum must be grounded to signal minus and aluminum must not come into contact with signal +
DC is not technically a “steady voltage that never moves” but rather a voltage level whose polarity stays constant.
AC alternates the polarity of the voltage signal – usually uniformly to a sinusoidal patten.
You can have square tooth, triangular or even random AC signals.
going between 0 and 5 volts in square form(or whatever) counts as ac for anything practical, the polarity staying constant. like ac with a dc offset at 2.5v. or indeed if your music signal goes between that. then you need the input cap(or output, or a transformer or some coupler) to get the dc offset out.
Tomi Engdahl says:
SYNERGISTIC RESEARCH HT CARBON – IT’S MAGIC. OR NOT.
https://www.headfonia.com/synergistic-research-ht-carbon-its-magic-or-not/
The HT Carbon is the successor to the controversial Synergistic Research HOT and it basically is a Headphone Transducer that is supposed to clear up sound and make your headphone sound better.
On Head-fi two different threads were created a long time ago to discuss the HOT and a now banned user called “Bigshot” even took it apart (Glue – Sand – Tape. See pic, Copyright of the original poster on Head-fi). The HOT was and still is a very controversial product, SR’s boss even joined the conversation but in the end both threads just had to be locked as discussions got “heated” to say the least.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.talkclassical.com/42908-audiophile-c-outlets-improvement-5.html
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/the-problem-with-synergistic-research
The Problem with Synergistic Research
The problem is one that a number of cable makers suffer from. I preface my remarks by noting this not a problem that is exclusive to Synergistic Research. I use SR as an example because I am more familiar with their cables than with the cables of other companies that have the same problem.
The problem is the cost of incremental improvements.
despite the bally-hoo that surrounds SR product launches, most of their products have brought no more than incremental improvements to my system. Products from other cable companies have brought equal or greater improvements for me — often at much lower cost.
The problem is that SR has such fast-paced marketing with products coming out at a gallop supplanting recently released products — such as the SR line of PowerCell conditioners — that I sometimes feel I have been left in the dust.
We cannot stop the relentless march of technology. But at the high price of most of SR’s offerings one is often left with sense of being left out instead of left in when new products come on the heels of products one has just purchased. The SR trade-up program does not remedy this problem at all, IMO.
There are many other cable companies without fast-paced marketing that provide equal or better value for the money, IMO. Companies like Bybee, HiDiamond and Cardas.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DIYAudio/permalink/4841784755887332/
So, I’ve been thinking! To me there seems to be 5 distinct types of people / methodologies when it comes to DIY audio In my opinion.
Before anyone gets upset or butthurt this is meant meant as a bit of tongue in cheek or light humour..
1. The “Engineer” otherwise known as the naysayer.
These people will tell you a resistor is a resistor and spending anything more than pennies on one is either lunacy or hilarious. These people will have worked “in the industry” for years and also tend to join DIY audio groups just to educate “mock” everyone that does share their point of view. WARNING! Do not under any circumstances question their credentials or start a thread asking about or announcing anything to do with power cables!!
2. The Purist, sometimes called a Fanboy.
This group of people think anything other than a carbon copy of the original “or as near as damn it when it suits” capacitor is blasphemy and argue that you may as well just buy a different speaker if you don’t like the sound! They tend to invest heavily in one brand and swears blind that their chosen Vintage brand sounds better than any of that modern Chinese rubbish and sometimes fight to the death with other “Rival” vintage brand gangs. They are usually inducted to said gangs by either inheriting an amp or speakers from a family member or by buying an item from said brand off Facebook for a ridiculously small amount.
WARNING: Prone to emotional outbursts if someone asks if they should upgrade anything “Vintage”!
3. The Newb
These people really just want to have a go, they rarely have very much electronics experience in the beginning and heavily rely on either the experts to guide them or another Newb that has already had a go and released the magic smoke so that they don’t have too. These people usually only have to build one or two things to become a forum expert and proceed to guide and of offer advice to the New Newbs . WARNING: Highly likely to release lots of magic smoke or electrocute them selves trying to retrieve a tiny screw that just fell into a live circuit!
4. The rich Newb
See above but with much more expensive magic smoke! These people usually have great photography skills too and make everyone feel sick with how expensive and cool their boutique projects look from multiple angles in 8k. Most if not all Newbs want to be these people and wonder what jobs they do to be able to afford these wonderful objects?? WARNING: These people are very unlikely to risk the huge embarrassment of announcing to the world that they have ever released the magic smoke leaving the rest of us scratching our heads in wonderment.
5. The grafter, also often to referred to a GOAT
These people will either design from scratch or take a piece of existing audio equipment and test it, analysing it to see what it’s good and bad attributes are to build on its weaknesses or improve its strengths. Very rarely is the cost of a component a deciding factor over how it sounds. They either have an unnerving ability to knock out truly great sounding pieces of audio design time after time or are of the trial and error type being open and honest about their failures but continually building on and developing, usually until the parts become unobtainium. Due to their proven track record and sharing nature these are the true hero’s of the DIY Audio world, some of these people are famous in their own right because of who they are, their contributions to the community or what audio brand they work for/own and the amount of help they give to us mere mortals but some are a less known but still deserve thanks and appreciation for the sheer hard work they put that benefits us all. WARNING: Do not question or bad mouth any of these people in their chosen forum groups or you may well be hung drawn and quartered! You have been warned.
That actually turned out to be a lot longer than first anticipated.
Discuss.
Tomi Engdahl says:
The concept of braiding might be sound, but no way in hell that these are worth the money (and couldn’t be done for a whole lot less). The argument that the amount you spend on cabling should be a certain percentage of what your total system costs is flawed- there is a point where you have the best design and materials for a given purpose and that is not related in any way to the price of your components
Tomi Engdahl says:
From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54Df7YyBI1M
The absolute hilarity of this is, Audioquest STOPPED braiding these power cables citing customer complaints about them being too stiff and AQ stating that the braiding didn’t do much for the cable.
WTF, 5200$? They are made from stranded copper cables, they are nothing more than 35$ jumper cables, this is hilarious.
If parallel wires act as inductors (BTW always thought they act as capacitors) and inductors filter out high frequencies, isn’t that a good thing? Ultimately you’d want a pure 50Hz signal.
They do act as capacitors.
Many audio salesmakers (they’re not all men) are driven by commissions. They’re going to steer you onto the products that make them the most money.
All my interconnects and speaker cables are braided and I agree with Paul that I think braiding makes a big difference to the sound.
An interesting question. The interconnects were constructed from one of a number of different articles that appeared in a book entitled “The SuperCables Cookbook” by Allen Wright, an Australian who founded a company called Vacuum State Electronics. As I recall, there were no explicit instructions as to how to begin the braiding so I guess the author didn’t think it mattered. I used silver-coated single-stranded insulated copper wire throughout. The speaker cables were constructed from a similar scheme when a friend told me he could obtain drums of computer data cable that was being discarded because it was too short for inter-office wiring but he thought it would be fine for even quite long speaker cables. Each cable consisted of four pairs of twisted insulated wires and with my friend’s help, we braided three of those cables then joined all twenty four wires together at each end. I was amazed at how good they sounded, even though I had used expensive van den Hul cables before. I’m still using those braided cables years later – and they’re monstrous.
As I understand you used LAN cables. Did you brade them as is or disassembled before? And do I understand right that you braded three cables as one wire, so you took 4 wires to conect 2 speakers? 2 cables x 2 wires for each x 3 LAN cables = 12 in sum.
The cables have a blue outer sleeve covering with four twisted pairs (i.e. eight insulated wires) inside. I guess they are local area network cables. After cutting them to length, I didn’t do anything to the cables other than plait three of them to form the braid. I then cut the outer sleeve back to bare the inner wires where I exposed the copper and twisted them all together. That was just for one channel, of course. I then repeated the process for the other. That meant six cables in all, not four; which amounts to 48 intermal wires all told, 24 per channel. I use solid gold-plated banana connectors to plug into the amplifier outputs. terminals.
For power cables? You audiophiles stop making yourselves clowns
Didn’t use a silver spoon, BUT, I did drive myself to (near) madness about ten years ago braiding up a pair of Chris Venhaus CAT5 speaker cables. While it was a finger-numbing experience I was dumbfounded on the difference it made to my system. When compared to the mid-priced Monster Cable I had been using the difference was far more than night and day. In fact, “miraculous” might be closer to the truth. Since then I braid everything I get my DIY hands on.
braiding cables has been known to work for ages… just look at every other old tube guitar amplifier from the 50s and 60s it reduced noise and hum back in the day just like they do today! They would not bother doing it otherwise.
No use for mains power cables though. Which is the topic of this video… Nobody is using braided power cables in any application but snake oil audio fool audio..
I’m sorry, but every electronic engineer worth its salt would tell you that it doesn’t make any measurable difference. The truth hurts
is true that “braiding cables has been known to work for ages”. Yes it works somewhat better on some cases than two just straight cables, but is far from optimal. There are many ways to get better performance in many ways using other cable constructions (that are simpler to manufacture but might not look that “cool”). Twisted pair of live and neutral wires with ground as separate wire and with outside shield over all of this is in far better wire construction on all relevant technical details I can think of. Compared to that construction that type of braiding construction shown on video is technically crap. That kind of braiding shown on video on power cables has the wires quite loose, which makes the area between conductors larger compared to the tighter cable constructions (twisted pair, parallel wires), which effectively makes sure that the inductance bigger. Also a cable braided like that radiates considerably more magnetic field (especially to near cable) compared to tightly twisted pair. The scientific truth and measurements can free your mind from baseless speculations.
There are different braiding constructions that can have different benefits and disadvantages (usually many of them not worth of the trouble in making them). Yes many wires braided together can get you quite low inductance, but that three wires braided like in the mains cable on the video is what might be fancy looking but is technically pretty bad construction idea.
No. The answer is no. Braided power cables provide absolutely no benefit in a system. Come on Paul – this isn’t a faith-based pursuit, as an engineer you know better than this.
This Japanese power distributor shields EMI and RFI but without filtering the electricity itself : Furutech eTP60-E. So you can plug your power cables into that one, using a less expensive but thick gauge power cable into it.
The Absolute Sound reviewed these and commented that, compared with other high priced power cables these are a “steal”. Oh, you betcha.
It is possible to power starve an amplifier through an under-rated power cable. But once you have an adequate cable (16ga is usually good enough… if it will run a lawn mower it will run your amplifier) there is nothing left to be gained.
What I like to know is what is the “hudge” difference, improvement using these cables compared to standard power cables? What happen to the sound? More transparent, clean? Does it alter frequency response?
Tomi Engdahl says:
Does braiding reduce RFI? And/or other mains contamination?
Not significantly, if at all. In fact, if “mains contamination” is affecting the sound of your system, you’ve got something horribly wrong with your power supplies.
Sure twisted pair reduces interference in data cables…. But it’s stupid for power cables. I guess out of sight out of mind for people thinking the last few feet of power delivery being braided would help anything.
Don’t tell the audiophiles how the cables in the wall looks. If you power cables makes a difference your power filter sucks. I could see absurd high capacity caps in power supplies make a difference a cleaner more effortless sound with very stable power rail voltages.
Someone please explain how power cables benefit from braiding. The AC gets rectified and smoothed – what get to power the amp should be pure DC. If cables degrade the signal, why don’t we use batteries?
They do not, neither do they need to be that heavy.
It is pure sales spiel.
I am a physicist. If they give me the science behind it and it makes sense, I will accept it. Until then I am highly sceptical.
Graham Bell invented twisted cables so phone singles could be carried over USA that should be enough proof twisting cable reduces EMI and inductance.
Twisted pairs will reduce co-interference with adjacent twisted pairs. By itself a twisted pair provides almost no benefit whatsoever.
Using twisted pairs with balanced signal source and destination can reduce a lot of the co-interference with adjacent twisted pairs, outside noise picked to the signal and signal radiated from the cable. Building the twisted pair with tight tolerances (wire copper thickness, insulation thickness, insulation material, consistent distance between wires all the time, consistent number of twists per meter) can produce a transmission path with constant impedance for the signals, which benefits the quality of transmission of fast and high frequency signals.
If you use twisted pair with unbalanced signal connections, many of those those wire twisting benefits are very greatly reduced.
Yep, we know that … but there is one heck of a difference between balanced audio at impedance in the 700 to 10k regions and a power cord with impedance in fractions of an ohm. At power line levels it takes hundreds of watts of power to penetrate and cause problems.
Paul, do you ship you ship your fine amplifiers with braided cords? If no, why not?
Steve Scudder, it’s the cost. If they included very top-end cables the amplifiers would sell for to much, instead they include a good cable, then leave it buyers choice if they upgraded to better power cables afterwards.
That’s BS. They could spend an extra $10 to braid their own power cables. They know it makes no difference which is why they don’t ship the amps with them.
Don’t we want to roll off the high frequency of a power cable? We just want pure 60 or 50Hz
Yes, absolutely we do. Unfortunately, any attempt I have made to do so deflates the sound. For example, place a big hunk of ferrite around the power cable (to roll off the higher frequencies) and suddenly you lose the life of the music. It’s hard.
Is your power supply braided within the walls then? Or from the local transformers to your property? Or from your your local transformers back to the power station. Its just a guess but I’m thinking that you have spent hundreds if not thousands on on just the last few feet in the run.
99.999999% of copper behind the walls aren’t insulated or shielded. Braiding them would be a disaster.
What I believe to be true makes little to no difference in this world, but here it goes: folks like Paul McGowan and Danny Ritchie at GR Research say similar things about cables. They both have systems that are very carefully set up, in rooms that are treated. I followed Paul’s speaker placement tips, and those of Ron at New Record Day, in order to get the most out of my system. Now I hear things I have never heard before, and my system compared to theirs is laughable. I can hear a difference between speaker cables now; I could not hear it as well before. It went from marginal to significant. I will add that I have compromised hearing on my right ear, and I can still hear it well enough. I’m not willing to write off anything, as I believe everything matters. Rather I’d like to keep an open mind until I’m put in a position where I can hear it for myself.
I think you make a really good point here about hearing a difference. You shouldn’t pay for anything YOU can’t hear a difference with.
Absolutely agree.
You make a good point, Paul’s system has been carefully engineered and the room has been specifically treated. Many people don’t have that option as most people didn’t have their house built from the ground up with the concept of having a sound room installed.
Interconnects carry signal, power cables carry power, power amplify signal, this is dumber than silver speaker cables.
Well said. I was a disbeliever until I tried building my own power cables and heard the difference. Equally impactful as interconnects IME.
I followed a recipe from VH Audio. I use 12 gauge semi solid conductors. The hot and neutral are a twisted pair with a fairly tight twist. The safety ground is wrapped around that pair in the opposite direction at one twist per foot. Then good copper based plugs. They work well reducing noise and bringing out bass slam. And yes, I have no explanation how this helps when there is 30 feet of 14gauge nomax running from the outlet to the breaker box. Makes no sense but it is easy to hear. I have had others come to my room with their amp same design as mine. After wondering why mine sounded so much better I said try my power cord on your amp. Bam. All of a sudden it woke up from it’s slumber.
Aren’t the 15-20 amps power cables in the wall in parallel from the power panel to the outlet and introducing inductance? Does braiding the cables from the power outlet to the amp really makes such an improvement in front of that?
Absolutely… It makes no sense, but the impact on sound is clear. I could imagine that if you had heavy gauge braided cables from the panel it might make a difference. I have 400 amp service to the house and the conductors to the transformer are the size of your finger. Then plain ol 14AWE to the outlet.
I think you’re right, I just found online that the inductance is inversely proportional to the size of the wires. So either you get large wires, or you braid them.
How do the wires in the wall sound? They are solid and not braided. Does the braiding at the last couple feet bring back all those lost sounds from the power going into the power supply to be converted to something else?
Look, can we put aside the technical discussion for a moment, and think about our mental condition? Looks like braiding does most of its work on the brain.
Tomi Engdahl says:
You just fueled an unhealthy obsession over power influencing sound. If the goal is clean sound, I can already see producers in the music industry laughing their asses off as they add compressed vinyl hiss and pops to tracks. Thing is, not all music is produced the same and those slight differences in frequency per song can drive an audiophile mad. “Well-designed gear doesn’t need a premium power cord priced over $100 because it has circuitry inside that can reject AC power noise.”
When there is one thing that I hate is when audiophiles talk about huge differences. If there is a huge differences then I guess you hear it right away and the difference if obvious like changing a pair of bad speakers to a pair of good speakers. And now you, Paul, tell us that with using PS audio amps and PS audio power generators those braided power cables make a huge difference? Really?
I agree that there’s a problem with some audiophiles and nuanced language. A huge difference is something that should be immediately apparent to anyone that hears it, and the difference between very different speakers is something that falls into this category as that’s by far the most diverse part of the chain (if we leave the room out of it).
When you use such words for something with such subtle differences that cables bring you are automatically seen as shady. Those that feel that cables certainly do make a difference should think that you’re overcompensating with your wording, which comes across as dishonest, and those that don’t believe cables make a difference as long a they are properly made will dig their heels in even further and think those that speak positively about cables are just hyperbolic liars. Whatever the case the language hurts your position towards any but those that also use such misleading statements.
Nuance is very important. Audiophiles tend to understand that when it comes to audio so it shouldn’t be too hard to grasp the same concept for communication. If you’re fine with calling a difference between good power cables huge it’s like saying that it doesn’t matter if the bass in your system is really bloated, you can still hear what music is being played.
Thousands of dollars of fancy bulky AC cables……but at the end of the it’s all about the synergy of all of the hardware components it’s connected to and your ears…..lol…….just wow. What an embarrassing video topic to involve yourself in.
The “snake oil” crowd (the cable deniers crowd) assert that it is the placebo effect; that people trick themselves into thinking that they hear a difference.
Cables do make a difference (both interconnects and power cables). But you will never get the naysayers to change their tune. You would have a better chance at getting them to change their religion or change their political party.
If you sat them down in front of a great stereo system, and had them swap the cables, they would probably be forced to admit that they really do hear the difference, and that it is not subtle (it is “in your face” better). But such demonstrations are not going to happen.
i agree with everything you said and would like to add a second reason for the naysayers. i genuinely believe there are people who CANNOT hear the differences. and because they cant hear it… obviously, it doesnt exist!
i can run faster than you. you can jump higher than me. your brother can lift more than either of us.
why is it such a leap to imagine one person can hear better than the next guy?
For subtle improvements, there will be no shortage of people that will honestly say that they hear no difference. I have swapped out cables, and could not honestly say I heard a difference, or could not identify the difference (I would fail a blind test between those two different cables). But that does not negate that cables can make a substantial sound improvement.
Just as changing tires on a car, some brands will feel nearly the same. But if you go from the lowest performing tires to the highest performing tires, you will notice the improvement. But a lot will also depend on the car. If the car is sloppy in the corners, then there is only so much that better tires can help.
Do the tire test on a Corvette or a Ferrari, and nearly anyone would notice the change. That is an assumption on my part, because I never drove either one. But I suspect that my analogy is on point. I put high performance tires on my 2003 Nissan Sentra, and I noticed the difference. So it stands to reason that sport’s cars would yield an even more noticeable improvement.
And so it is with stereos. If the testing is done with a stereo from Walmart, then there is no point to the test.
The stereo, itself, is the core piece of testing equipment. It has to be up to the task.
The better the stereo, the more apparent better cables will be.
With a professionally set-up high-end stereo, if you change the stock power cords with Audioquest’s best power cords, the improvement in sound quality will be enough for even deaf-in-one-ear people to hear.
The problem is such tests are unrealistic for 99.9999% of people. So they go with what they heard, and, unfortunately, what they never heard.
Tomi Engdahl says:
“could be the twisted cables effectively act like a filter at the end of a water line?”
The answer is NO. Using twisted pair wire do not act like a filter for signal going through it any way considerably differently compared to two parallel wires at the same distance from each other. The “act as filter” theory is wring and if “twisted pairs act as filter” is used in sales talk it is bullshit talk. It does NOT clean up whatever goes upstream or downstream.
Cable twisting has some effect on how much EMI the cable can radiate to environment or pick up from environment. Cable twisting and putting a metal shield over the twisted cable provides good EMI protection.
Tomi Engdahl says:
I like Paul but when audiophiles say “I don’t know why but this thing makes my system sound better” it’s just placebo effect. I have no doubt that there are people who think that red cables sound better then black cables.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Paul, any sufficient shielded power cable is good enough. Everything else is snake oil! Or better BS!
No it is not BS. It is good money in cable salesmen pockets.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.psaudio.com/pauls-posts/coppers-sound/
Tomi Engdahl says:
Maybe our ears are not trained enough, Paul. But there are people who have there trained ears (see: http://www.stereotimes.com/post/dynamic-design-ariel-ae15-digital-ac-powercord/ ) and an audiophile beginner might believe that AC is able to control the supplying current depending whether there is a digital or analog component!
Tomi Engdahl says:
Solid Snake-Oil Storage: This SSD Is Aimed at Audiophiles
By Aaron Klotz , Paul Alcorn published 1 day ago
This SSD purportedly makes your audio sound better.
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvme-ssd-for-audiophiles?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=social&utm_content=tomsguide&utm_source=facebook.com
If you thought a $2,500 audiophile-focused ethernet switch was strange, then you’ll also be amused with this NVMe SSD designed specifically for audiophiles. Last known to be in the sampling phase, the new device was posted to the Audiophilestyle forums. Supposedly, the drive can increase audio quality and give you real 3D sound along with an experience that only comes from vinyl recordings, but don’t look for this drive on our list of Best SSDs any time soon — its impact on audio quality is questionable, to say the least.
pSLC mode: There is a special natural feeling, it becomes more smooth and calm, the thickness is slightly increased, and overall it is more resistant to hearing but still slightly dry.”
As for the rest of the drive’s features, it is specced out with a Crystek CCHD-957 Femto clock oscillator, two Audionote Kaisei 220uf capacitors, an external 5V DC power input, an eight-layer PCB with 2oz of copper, Milspec PCB stiffness, 300% grounding area, 5u gold plated connectors, and a CNCed copper heatsink.
Additionally, the maker claims this SSD is powered by an external power source (power doesn’t come from the motherboard) to enhance sound quality further. You can see the power jack in the lower-left corner of the device.
Thumbing through the forum thread, it appears this experience is based on the users’ subjective measure, though, meaning there are no actual measurements of sound quality. That’s par for the course for many insanely-priced devices for audiophiles, though.
Honestly, we highly doubt the fancy gizmo provides any additional sound enhancements over a “standard SSD.” Regardless of the tech surrounding the chips, at their most basic level, SSDs store data in binary 1s and 0s, meaning that you can only have 1s and 0s of data. Simply put, adding extra gadgets or power isolation to an SSD can’t change those 1s or 0s into something better, and any rarely encountered errors are immediately corrected through various types of error-correcting code.
If anything, the SSD should be very fast simply due to the nature of pSLC, and have crazy overkill power conditioning. Besides that, it’s hard to believe that it would provide a better audio experience. That’s because SSDs are incapable of altering audio quality — that’s all done by the audio processing unit on your computer.
Tomi Engdahl says:
$2,500 Ethernet Switch Effectively Isolates Audiophiles From Cash
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/ethernet-switch-for-audiophiles
Tomi Engdahl says:
Stereo – Let’s talk about high end power cable for Stereo!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAh1p17cSXo
My experience with power cable.
Viewer comments:
“If I spent $3K, I want to be able hear the obvious improvement” — I agree 100%, I’d better hear something clear right away. $3K is a lot of money and not worth it if I have to listen carefully to hear the difference. It is a great video! When I bought my amplifier, I did the same. The dealer did a comparison between the amplifier that I was planning to buy and the better one (same brand) which cost 2 times than the one that I was going to buy. I could not even hear any difference. I was pretty good in constraining myself from spending money on unnecessary thing.
The most difference I’ve ever noticed with power in terms of cables was with something i could physically feel. The lawnmower. I put on a thicker power cable and the lawnmower was much more powerful and I could feel it. Thinner cable not so much. So, more power effected it, no doubt, but other than feeling it I wouldn’t have seen a difference. With audio better cables probably allow for a cleaner transfer, however, probably not noticeable to our ears. if that’s true, then yes, it made a difference, but no not a difference worth overspending on.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Don’t buy expensive cables! #audiophiles #highendaudio
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rUD1Kxoybw
The cable controversy is way out of control, and it doesn’t need to be. Use the cheapest cables and your music will sound totally fine.