What annoys me today in marketing and media that too often today then talking on hi-fi, science is replaced by bizarre belief structures and marketing fluff, leading to a decades-long stagnation of the audiophile domain. Science makes progress, pseudo-science doesn’t. Hi-fi world is filled by pseudoscience, dogma and fruitloopery to the extent that it resembles a fundamentalist religion. Loudspeaker performance hasn’t tangibly improved in forty years and vast sums are spent addressing the wrong problems.
Business for Engineers: Marketers Lie article points tout that marketing tells lies — falsehoods — things that serve to convey a false impression. Marketing’s purpose is to determining how the product will be branded, positioned, and sold. It seems that there too many snake oil rubbish products marketed in the name of hifi. It is irritating to watch the stupid people in the world be fooled.
In EEVblog #29 – Audiophile Audiophoolery video David L. Jones (from EEVBlog) cuts loose on the Golden Ear Audiophiles and all their Audiophoolery snake oil rubbish. The information presented in Dave’s unique non-scripted overly enthusiastic style! He’s an enthusiastic chap, but couldn’t agree more with many of the opinions he expressed: Directional cables, thousand dollar IEC power cables, and all that rubbish. Monster Cable gets mostered. Note what he says right at the end: “If you pay ridiculous money for these cable you will hear a difference, but don’t expect your friends to”. If you want to believe, you will.
My points on hifi-nonsense:
One of the tenets of audiophile systems is that they are assembled from components, allegedly so that the user can “choose” the best combination. This is pretty largely a myth. The main advantage of component systems is that the dealer can sell ridiculously expensive cables, hand-knitted by Peruvian virgins and soaked in snake oil, to connect it all up. Say goodbye to the noughties: Yesterday’s hi-fi biz is BUSTED, bro article asks are the days of floorstanders and separates numbered? If traditional two-channel audio does have a future, then it could be as the preserve of high resolution audio. Sony has taken the industry lead in High-Res Audio.
HIFI Cable Humbug and Snake oil etc. blog posting rightly points out that there is too much emphasis placed on spending huge sums of money on HIFI cables. Most of what is written about this subject is complete tripe. HIFI magazines promote myths about the benefits of all sorts of equipment. I am as amazed as the writer that that so called audiophiles and HIFI journalists can be fooled into thinking that very expensive speaker cables etc. improve performance. I generally agree – most of this expensive interconnect cable stuff is just plain overpriced.
I can agree that in analogue interconnect cables there are few cases where better cables can really result in cleaner sound, but usually getting any noticeable difference needs that the one you compare with was very bad yo start with (clearly too thin speaker wires with resistance, interconnect that picks interference etc..) or the equipment in the systems are so that they are overly-sensitive to cable characteristics (generally bad equipment designs can make for example cable capacitance affect 100 times or more than it should). Definitely too much snake oil. Good solid engineering is all that is required (like keep LCR low, Teflon or other good insulation, shielding if required, proper gauge for application and the distance traveled). Geometry is a factor but not in the same sense these yahoos preach and deceive.
In digital interconnect cables story is different than on those analogue interconnect cables. Generally in digital interconnect cables the communication either works, does not work or sometimes work unreliably. The digital cable either gets the bits to the other end or not, it does not magically alter the sound that goes through the cable. You need to have active electronics like digital signal processor to change the tone of the audio signal traveling on the digital cable, cable will just not do that.
But this digital interconnect cables characteristics has not stopped hifi marketers to make very expensive cable products that are marketed with unbelievable claims. Ethernet has come to audio world, so there are hifi Ethernet cables. How about 500 dollar Ethernet cable? That’s ridiculous. And it’s only 1.5 meters. Then how about $10,000 audiophile ethernet cable? Bias your dielectrics with the Dielectric-Bias ethernet cable from AudioQuest: “When insulation is unbiased, it slows down parts of the signal differently, a big problem for very time-sensitive multi-octave audio.” I see this as complete marketing crap speak. It seems that they’re made for gullible idiots. No professional would EVER waste money on those cables. Audioquest even produces iPhone sync cables in similar price ranges.
HIFI Cable insulators/supports (expensive blocks that keep cables few centimeters off the floor) are a product category I don’t get. They typically claim to offer incredible performance as well as appealing appearance. Conventional cable isolation theory holds that optimal cable performance can be achieved by elevating cables from the floor in an attempt to control vibrations and manage static fields. Typical cable elevators are made from electrically insulating materials such as wood, glass, plastic or ceramics. Most of these products claim superior performance based upon the materials or methods of elevation. I don’t get those claims.
Along with green magic markers on CDs and audio bricks is another item called the wire conditioner. The claim is that unused wires do not sound the same as wires that have been used for a period of time. I don’t get this product category. And I don’t believe claims in the line like “Natural Quartz crystals along with proprietary materials cause a molecular restructuring of the media, which reduces stress, and significantly improves its mechanical, acoustic, electric, and optical characteristics.” All sounds like just pure marketing with no real benefits.
CD no evil, hear no evil. But the key thing about the CD was that it represented an obvious leap from earlier recording media that simply weren’t good enough for delivery of post-produced material to the consumer to one that was. Once you have made that leap, there is no requirement to go further. The 16 bits of CD were effectively extended to 18 bits by the development of noise shaping, which allows over 100dB signal to noise ratio. That falls a bit short of the 140dB maximum range of human hearing, but that has never been a real goal. If you improve the digital media, the sound quality limiting problem became the transducers; the headphones and the speakers.
We need to talk about SPEAKERS: Soz, ‘audiophiles’, only IT will break the sound barrier article says that today’s loudspeakers are nowhere near as good as they could be, due in no small measure to the presence of “traditional” audiophile products. that today’s loudspeakers are nowhere near as good as they could be, due in no small measure to the presence of “traditional” audiophile products. I can agree with this. Loudspeaker performance hasn’t tangibly improved in forty years and vast sums are spent addressing the wrong problems.
We need to talk about SPEAKERS: Soz, ‘audiophiles’, only IT will break the sound barrier article makes good points on design, DSPs and the debunking of traditional hi-fi. Science makes progress, pseudo-science doesn’t. Legacy loudspeakers are omni-directional at low frequencies, but as frequency rises, the radiation becomes more directional until at the highest frequencies the sound only emerges directly forwards. Thus to enjoy the full frequency range, the listener has to sit in the so-called sweet spot. As a result legacy loudspeakers with sweet spots need extensive room treatment to soak up the deficient off-axis sound. New tools that can change speaker system designs in the future are omni-directional speakers and DSP-based room correction. It’s a scenario ripe for “disruption”.
Computers have become an integrated part of many audio setups. Back in the day integrated audio solutions in PCs had trouble earning respect. Ode To Sound Blaster: Are Discrete Audio Cards Still Worth the Investment? posting tells that it’s been 25 years since the first Sound Blaster card was introduced (a pretty remarkable feat considering the diminished reliance on discrete audio in PCs) and many enthusiasts still consider a sound card an essential piece to the PC building puzzle. It seems that in general onboard sound is finally “Good Enough”, and has been “Good Enough” for a long time now. For most users it is hard to justify the high price of special sound card on PC anymore. There are still some PCs with bad sound hardware on motherboard and buttload of cheap USB adapters with very poor performance. However, what if you want the best sound possible, the lowest noise possible, and don’t really game or use the various audio enhancements? You just want a plain-vanilla sound card, but with the highest quality audio (products typically made for music makers). You can find some really good USB solutions that will blow on-board audio out of the water for about $100 or so.
Although solid-state technology overwhelmingly dominates today’s world of electronics, vacuum tubes are holding out in two small but vibrant areas. Some people like the sound of tubes. The Cool Sound of Tubes article says that a commercially viable number of people find that they prefer the sound produced by tubed equipment in three areas: musical-instrument (MI) amplifiers (mainly guitar amps), some processing devices used in recording studios, and a small but growing percentage of high-fidelity equipment at the high end of the audiophile market. Keep those filaments lit, Design your own Vacuum Tube Audio Equipment article claims that vacuum tubes do sound better than transistors (before you hate in the comments check out this scholarly article on the topic). The difficulty is cost; tube gear is very expensive because it uses lots of copper, iron, often point-to-point wired by hand, and requires a heavy metal chassis to support all of these parts. With this high cost and relative simplicity of circuitry (compared to modern electronics) comes good justification for building your own gear. Maybe this is one of the last frontiers of do-it-yourself that is actually worth doing.
1,576 Comments
Tomi Engdahl says:
How can one turntable sound better than another?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5XQ3azRx_w
What is it that determines how a turntable will sound? Does the platter, bearings, belt, or the tonearm affect the quality of the sound reproduction? Using a little common sense might save you some money!
Tomi Engdahl says:
Very Detailed Turntable Setup for Beginners
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WM-aIDwfrhc
Turntable setup is important. With proper setup, your turntable will give you the best performance that it can.
7 Tips to Perfect Sounding Vinyl Records: Handling, Cleaning, Playing overview
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2QfjcgDjsY
A lot of people are pulling out their old turntables and records, and many people are buying their first LPs. What a lot of people don’t know, however, is how to get excellent sound out of the equipment you already have. Sure, there are turntables that are far superior to others, but record handling, cleaning, and playing have just as much (if not more) importance than your equipment. In this video I show you how to read your set up of pops and clicks that vinyl record LPs are often hindered by.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Cable braiding (Litz) : Just eye candy or significant audio advantage over twisted cable?
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cable-braiding-litz-just-eye-candy-or-significant-audio-advantage-over-twisted-cable.837545/
Almost every cable builder seems to be preferring the Litz braids for cable making. Does it give any audio and electrical advantage?
Just simple twisted configurations are inferior except the appearance?
While braiding can have mechanical advantages, twisting has electrical advantages:
a] Lower loop inductance.
b] Better RFI rejection.
Disadvantage:
a] Higher capacitance.
**************************
But all these differences are very small and in the real world probably don’t matter at all.
What’s the drawback of high capacitance?
Some legacy, boutique or poorly designed output stages are unhappy with a high capacitance loud. They may ring or even oscillate. But even then it’s only a problem with longer cables.
While there are some industrial applications where Litz wire has advantages, hi-fi headphone and speaker cables are not on that list.
It’s just another audiophile myth that current jumps from strand to strand.
It’s a misunderstanding. (that then became a myth)
Differences in cable total resistance, inductance & capacitance and overall length will overwhelm any small theoretical skin effect /litz wire differences.
If two cables sound different it’s not because of litz wire.
There are so many other things that effect the sound that even if you found the “perfect” interconnect you may never know it if you are not getting the other things correct to begin with.
Some good coax cables with heavy braided shields:
Belden 1505F
Belden 1695A
Canare LV-77S
Blue Jeans Cable LC-1
These are measurably some of the best cables available. (there are others with similar specs)
No, those are good RCA analog interconnect cables. The heavy braided shield is needed for long analog cable runs.
For long SPDIF, choose a good 75 Ohm coax cable.
I just realized what may be causing some confusion here.
Litz wire does not simply mean “braided.” Though, it is braided. By the looks of the title of this thread it appears to be the assumption it means to be braided in a special weave.
Litz wire is a wire where its not only braided.. But, having each individual fine strand in the cable being insulated from one another. Regular braided wire, only “braids.” Its not Litz. It does not insulate as to prevent the strand hopping and blurring that takes place with non insulated strands of wire… be it silver, or copper. Makes no difference.
Litz is a special process to guarantee a very pure signal transfer. The only other option would be using solid core, no strands. That way you avoid the strand hopping and blurring. That strand hopping and blurring often times shows up as that high frequency tizz we have become accustomed to and try to find ways to tame.
LItz wire is designed to reduce AC resistance at higher frequencies, so if it has any audible effect, one would expect it to sound airier and brighter contrary to the duller sound you’re describing.
Audiophile experimenter comment:
Litz construction means that each conductor strand is individually insulated. In most cables this is not the case, and without insulation the signal can randomly jump conductors in an uncontrolled manner. Distortion results in the phase and time domains, and although this may be difficult to measure, it can definitely be detected by the most sensitive of instruments, the human ear.
Here is a little view of the Q-Audio braided unbalanced litz interconnects (which sound as neutral as you’re going to get). Those plain looking white cables hanging down in front of everything are my litz speaker cables made from raw litz cabling that I made myself. Ugly – looks like junk – by audiophile standards. Sounds fantastic when a system is set up optimally.
True, I’m only concentrating on the engineering aspects. What is this something else?
Yes.. What you HEAR on an accurate phase coherent system…
If you listen on a system with all sorts of time and phase problems you probably will think its a myth. Litz is the wire for high end audiophile systems. I know of no other cable that can transfer the signal intact like litz does. Leading edges are dynamic. Bass is solid and tight when its on the recording and your amplification is up to snuff. If you have speakers that are typically having crossovers that make the drivers out of phase with one another you might as well line up in the “Its a myth” line. Yet, you will hear a difference. I have some solid core wire you can buy from me if you wish. I have some shielded speaker cables made from very high quality copper if you wish. Most interconnects and speaker cables are designed to counter the hash produced by the non-insulated strands used in making the cable. Litz avoids that electronic hash.
I use litz as my objective starting point to evaluate my system. I have Q-Audio interconnects, and just purchased some WyWire balanced interconnects which are in transit as I type this. My speaker wires are crappy looking raw litz wire (about 12 AWG)….. Here is what they look like. Obviously I was not liking them because they look fantastic. They sound fantastic when a system is set up optimally!
“The problem litz solves is something I can only explain in layman terms…..
Litz has each thin strand coated with a polymer that causes each strand to be insulated from all the others in the cable.
With the usual standard stranded cable (no matter how good the copper or silver) each thin strand is bare and not individually insulating each strand from the other strands.
With regular cable when the signal is being sent through the wires without insulation the current/voltage will skip and jump from one strand to the other. That is why solid core
tends to sound smoother, but if too thick can suffer from other types of signal degradation.
Litz allows for the signal to pass from one end to the other of the cable while avoiding most of the distortions that are unavoidable with regular stranded cable.
When trying litz in my system for the first time, in comparison to the regular cables, .. it sounded almost dull. For all that high end tizz was now missing. What was missing was the normally heard high frequency tizz that is caused by the interaction taking place within the non insulated strands. Litz may requires that you reset your system because many audiophiles compensate for that tizz and try to find ways to dull it down. Litz gives a very tight accurate sound when everything is optimal…. I love it. Its warm when the music is warm… and very quick when its there to be heard.”
I don’t enjoy correcting people, it doesn’t make me popular. But it bothers me on a deep level seeing misinformation like this spread.
Here you go:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litz_wire
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skin_effect
1. Cables That Use Stranded Wire:
Under the insulation of a cable, you will most likely find tiny bare wire strands all twisted together. This is called stranded wire. In stranded wire designs, the strands touch each other thousands of times at various points along the length of the wire, causing the signal to jump from strand to strand instead of flowing through a solid continum.
The results are phase distortions at each point where the strands come into contact, causing distortion of the signal; blurred imaging, lost soundstage cues, bloated and non-defined bass, etc. Details like the 3rd and 4th echo off the hall, subtle harmonics and depth are lost. http://morrowaudio.com/about-us/ssi-technology
“The results are phase distortions at each point where the strands come into contact, causing distortion of the signal; blurred imaging, lost soundstage cues, bloated and non-defined bass, etc. Details like the 3rd and 4th echo off the hall, subtle harmonics and depth are lost. ”
Of course this is all incorrect and total imagination. There are no advantages for using Litz or Solid core conductors in hi-fi situations.
Stranded, Litz or Solid Core?
Most cables consist of thin strands of wire bunched together to form 2 conductive cores. However there are alternatives in the form of “Litz” and “solid core”. If you don’t know what Litz wire is, then it’s best described as a bunch of thin wire strands within a conductor, in which every strand is individually insulated from it’s neighbour. Favoured in many high end cables, this configuration has the advantage of completely eliminating signal degradation caused by electricity jumping from strand to strand as it passes along the cable. Electricity “jumps” in normal stranded cable because it travels the quickest path. The bunched strands making up the cable do not run straight, but have a light twist to hold them together for manufacturing reasons. This twist causes “jumping” but any bend in the cable will have a similar effect. As one might expect, elimination of the jumping effect manifests itself in a very pure sound, devoid of grain and background haze.
A well designed Litz wire always seems to perform well as an interconnect. However for speaker cables it is not as consistent. Maybe because it presents a higher impedance for low frequencies. On account of this, it’s best avoided as a speaker cable on valve and low power amplifiers. For anything over 40 Watts solid state, Litz cable can be a huge advantage.
Solid Core cable is usually a single, relatively thick conductor instead of a bunch of thin strands. Similar to Litz, there is no signal degradation caused by electricity jumping across boundaries and as you would expect, the sound is pure and transparent.
The tonal balance of a solid core wire is affected by the thickness of it’s core. Thin solid core wires (less than 0.5 sq mm cross section) are highly transparent but bass light, thick solid cores on the other hand are bass heavy (2.5 sq mm cross section 30 amp mains wire) – mains wire with conductor cross-section of 1sq mm is about right for many systems and still popular in some quarters.
A large diameter solid core wire such as Origin Live Soli-Core is highly favoured by valve amp users. No one really seems to know exactly why thick twisted solid core wire works so well on valves but it outperforms exotic alternatives including Litz wires.
https://www.originlive.com/choosing-hi-fi-cables.html
Once again that’s all incorrect!
Audio signals don’t care if the conductor is stranded, solid or Litz.
Actually, for audio, it is a myth and it is only seen in the consumer audio market. That is because the pros in pro audio already know better. Any engineer worth a salt would instantly spot this as a bogus marketing ploy. While Litz wires do have application in RF (and usually in the MHz and even GHz range), it has zero perceived benefit (except maybe placebo) in the audio range. That is because you’d have to be up near 20kHz to even begin to notice a difference, and even then it would only measurable as opposed to human perception.
Audiophiles are listening for one thing. Engineers (according to what you are saying) see cables only as a tool. A tool to achieve a needed outcome enabling them to manipulate what is heard with their board and various effect boxes. They are not listening for the finer nuances as an audiophile will.
Its like buying a car with its OEM tires. The engineers used those tires to adjust and design the car in a generalized way (unless its a high end automobile). A real car enthusiast will buy a car and end up changing the tires to something that will give him a road feel he will desire… Now tires, even if the OEM tires measured objectively to be the same.
Not everyone drives with the same sense for the road. Likewise, cables and wires.
One more time:
The status quo was shattered by the publication of several articles. In Japan it was Akihiko Kaneda at Akita University (1974) who argued that sound quality of a speaker/amplifier interface could be impacted by wire or cable. He suggested that this could be caused by the skin effect whereby current is progressively pushed to the skin layer of a conductor at increasing frequency, an effect made worse by the common practice at that time of tin-plating copper wire. Soon thereafter, in 1975, the late great Japanese audio critic, Saburo Egawa (1932–2015), practically started his audio career with the publication of listening test results showing sonic differences between different speaker cables. At Japan’s Mogami Cable, Koichi Hirabayashi was determined to prove Egawa wrong. But after extensive listening tests he became convinced that despite its apparent minimal theoretical effect over the audible bandwidth, skin effect does play a rather large role in perceived sonic differences. The end results of his research were the Mogami 2803 interconnect and 2804 speaker cable.
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/a-short-history-of-high-end-cables/
Its not a myth. Come on. Stop, it. Maybe your headphones make no difference. But on audio equipment in general it removes the high frequency tizz and gives more precise imaging.My speakers sound amazingly accurate with litz. And, only like hi-fi without. But, if I had not so good speakers I am not sure what I would be hearing. We are assuming here that people are seeking the best sound they can get.
Its amazing… Certain people always pop up in all kinds of forums wanting to prevent others from discovering something that will add to their happiness. What’s with these guys?
You are only concentrating on one superior aspect of Litz. That one aspect will not make a difference. Litz is also doing something else that is audible and SUPERIOR sounding (more realistic) on good systems.
What it was designed for was good. The “side benefits” for audio use was not what they had in mind.It eliminates a certain audible harshness that regular cables have… Many attribute that harshness to being electronics sound. I found Litz makes my solid state sound more tube like.
It can sound nicely airier. It just won’t sound harsh (tizziness). Some of the harshness we hear typically comes from the naked strand effect of regular cabling that Litz overcame. That is why for certain applications audiophiles have looked to solid core cable as a preferred cable. (solid core does not have electrical interaction with other strands) .. Litz gives the best of both worlds. When using Litz that harshness is gone. The first impression could be that it sounds duller. But, it actually sound more like real music, less electronic, without the harshness. That’s been mine and others experience.
This is not an endorsement… But Cardas HP cables are litz. Not simply braided. Smoothness is one trait. Q-Audio also offers Litz HP cables. http://www.q-audio.com/shopz/q-french-silk-tm-cable
Tomi Engdahl says:
http://studioprojects.com/litz.html
Litz construction means that each conductor strand is individually insulated. In most cables this is not the case, and without insulation the signal can randomly jump conductors in an uncontrolled manner. Distortion results in the phase and time domains, and although this may be difficult to measure, it can definitely be detected by the most sensitive of instruments, the human ear.
So, why not just use all Litz conductors of the same gauge, and leave it at that?
Simply put, finer conductors tend to favor the high frequencies, and heavier conductors are better for the midrange and bass
Tomi Engdahl says:
5 Myths About Speaker Wire
Nov. 6, 2014
Do expensive speaker wires “sound” better? Not likely.
https://www.machinedesign.com/community/editorial-comment/article/21832227/5-myths-about-speaker-wire
ut many of these claims are bogus and they create myths surrounding speaker wires. Here are five of them:
Thicker wires are better: It’s true that for long runs, thicker wires are better at reducing the effects of resistance. But for most set ups (those with speakers within 100 ft of the amplifier), 16-gauge lamp cord is fine. For speakers 100 to 200 ft. from the amp, experts suggest use 14 gauge. And from 200 to 400 ft., they recommend 12-gauge wires. Using extremely thick wire for short runs yields virtually no audible benefit, at least none most people can hear.
Solving skin effect: It’s true that higher frequency signals tend to travel on a wire’s perimeter while lower-frequencies signals travel near the center. But any effect is only noticeable when dealing with miles of cable and frequencies not used for audio. So don’t waste any money “solving” this problem with intricately braided speaker cables.
Speaker wires should be the same length: It seems to make sense that speaker wires should be identical to eliminate phase shifts. But electrical signals travel through speaker wire at near the speed of light. It would take miles of speaker wire to hear any difference. So having wires a foot or two (or 10) different is irrelevant.
Break-in is “critical”: According to some so-called audio experts, the small electrical current passing through speaker wire physically alters the wire enough to create an audible change over time. Not true. Still, companies try to sell wire “cookers” and break-in services to perpetuate this myth and make a buck.
Splices degrade the sound: Audio experts have determined that properly spliced and soldered wires do not change or degrade the sound coming out of speakers. Although an oscilloscope can detect splices by identifying small voltage drops or spikes, the anomalies are too small to hear.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/made-my-first-braided-speaker-cable.877851/page-3
Braiding the conductors causes any external EM radiation to be picked up equally in both lines- which may not be the case if the conductors are in the normal side by side configuration.
This means that the signals produced are common mode and will not produce a signal voltage across the speaker.
However, the EM fields that are likely to be encountered are tiny and there’s no amplification so it’s of minimal value.
The inductance is a function of the enclosed loop and it is minimized by having the wires as close to one another as possible and having the conductors in a linear structure as this reduces the flux linkage between different sections of the wire (essentially mutual inductance between turns).
So, the side by side conductor arrangement has minimal inductance, and can be further reduced by running multiple insulated wires in parallel, but is actually increased for a twisted pair, especially since the twisting reduces the effective length of the wire.
Capacitance is a bit more complex and I’ve no seat of the pants explanation for what would happen.
So, I did some measurements on a 14 AWG standard side by side speaker wire that was then separated and reduced from about 6′ to about 5′ by twisting. The resistance remained the same, so in effect the twisted wire has about 20% more resistance per unit length than the non twisted wire. The inductance increased from 1.3uH to 1.6uH- so about a 50% increase in inductance per ft.
The capacitance reduced from 102 pF to 78pF- but accounting for the change in effective length it was essentially unchanged.
The bottom line is- I believe that twisting is not beneficial for speaker cables- but nor is it particularly harmful if you don’t care about the effective increase in resistance and inductance.
Thanks for the reply Wyn. I’m still a bit confused though, the increase in resistance and inductance in the cable by braiding it makes no difference to the sound the speaker produces!??
It depends…
The resistance of the roughly 6′ cable of 14AWG stranded wire (untwisted) was 0.16 ohms there and back. For an 8 ohm resistive load that is a damping factor of 50, which would be fine.
Two sections in parallel would be 0.08 ohms.
The1.6uH inductance has an impedance of about 0.2ohms at 20kHz, and two parallel wires would be 0.1ohms at 20kHz. Still fine for your 8 ohm speaker.
These are pretty small numbers unless you are driving something like the electrostatic panels on the speakers I use that have an impedance of 0.9 ohms at c. 30kHz.
Ignoring the fact that stranded wire doesn’t really exactly conform to the AWG numbers- 16AWG has about 25% higher resistance but essentially identical inductance.
So, the resistance goes up by 25% and the inductance stays the same. I have no comment on the capacitance.
https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/diy-speaker-braid-vs-twist-vs-straight
Cdc, this is a highly system-dependent decision.If it were just simple resistance, or just skin-effect, the decision would be simple. But the capacitance and inductance of the cables interact with the characteristics of your components and speakers. This is why different people swear by very different cables as being the best. They may be the best, but maybe only on their system. If you are doing DIY, it may be of benefit to try some low-inductance configurations and some high-inductance ones. Also, do the same with capacitance. When you hear the difference between these designs, you can determine which way to move toward your final design. It is much easier to do this with DIY, than to buy 25 different cables to test and see which ones you like. From my experience on interconnects, if you don’t have RF problems, stay away from shielding. Sound is better without it. With speaker wires, bare wire terminations are generally better than using termination lugs. I use 30ga solid-core copper wire with no shield for my 1 meter interconnects, and 22ga solid-core copper wire for the 3 meter speaker cables. Single conductor run for each. No twists, braids or anything. I keep them well separated along the entire runs. Teflon tube insulators. I use tube gear, and it is quite fine sounding.
The sonic benefits of such simple designs (smaller gauge and single runs w/o spades, etc.) are reduced smearing and a much more open sound (the sound is more in the room than obviously coming from the speakers).
Imaging on the otherhand is not as precise as some of the more complex designs (I find slightly fuzzy imaging to sound more realistic), but do not confuse my description of the imaging with fuzzy overall sound as the detail of these simple designs can be quite startling (my description is lacking, not the sound:-).
Twisting is usually a better performer because it locates the forwards and return wires in close proximity and creates some field cancellation. When the forward and return paths are in parallel or twisted, this lowers the inductance substantially over separated wires. Braiding is really only for convenience to hold multiple pairs together. Braiding actually degrades the performance. If you select a braid that mostly makes the pairs orthogonal to each other, this will help. I would recommend using enough twisted-pairs to equal 10-12 gauge.
This has been a very helpful thread.
Audioquest says “Simple evaluation of multiple sizes reveals that audible skin-effect induced anomalies begin with a strand (or conductor) larger than .8mm. A much smaller strand yields no benefits but encourages the problems discussed below….”.
http://www.audioquest.com/theory/theory2.html
.8mm = .0315″ dia = 20 gauge wire = maximum size wire to use
I don’t know about the benefits of lacquer vs. enamel but since the magnet wire I found is enamel so I’ll go with that. Enamel should be more durable and less prone to cracking than lacquer.
I have never used silver wire in my speaker cables. I did use it once in a preamp I modded, and it was too bright. If you use a SET amp w/ transformer induced problems like high-end rolloff, it can be used to somewhat compensate for that. I really don’t like to use cables for tone controls though. Better to resolve the problems at the root.
I don’t know of any inherent advantage/disadvantage with square section wire. You’ll just have to take your skin-effect depth measurement off the diagonal. I am not the ultimate cable guru. I just made some DIY stuff that had some good design basis behind it, and it worked out. You can too.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Does Silver Cable Sound Bright and why.
https://hifihaven.org/index.php?threads/does-silver-cable-sound-bright-and-why.2077/
Well I read everywhere that Silver cable sounds bright, I think I have worked out why. The cost of Silver (Ag) is much higher than Copper (Cu) and this would effect the amount that is used, ok it resistance is lower but that not the reason.
Using a thinner conductor will reduce the amount of current that can flow, and with the smaller diameter the effects of lets say Skin Effect will be pronounced and the cable will sound bright thin and not nice.
I have heard some silver cables and some copper cables that sound bright and I have heard both sound good – depending on the system.
Braided, spaced, coaxial, star quad – have heard all of them sound bright on occasion.
In my opinion, the cable geometry has a lot to do with the resulting ‘sound’ of the cable.
I have silver cables from Nordost and Audioquest and they’re noticeably brighter than my other cables. Which works in some setups and doesn’t in others. I really can’t speak to the difference in construction or cable diameter compared to others, I merely go by what I hear and don’t sweat the whys, or the arguments about cables in general. Life is too short.
I have a similar library of cables and also similar varying results pointing at conductor material not being the only factor, and geometry being one important element as well as the dielectric properties of the conductor’s insulation.
Seems that higher-end foamed polyethylene and foamed Teflon are typically better than not. Also seems the manner in which the insulator is applied matters, looser is better and more air around the conductor is better sounding, so-called cross-hatched PE or the methods employed by Nordost for instance provide for greater amounts of air around the conductor.
Geometry plays a massive part and the insulator, The configuration stayed the same on a test I did and I found silk to be best, then Kevlar then PTFE but best of all was air gap, I also tried Mercury filled, it was interesting but not safe I wanted to try Woods Metal but never got round to it.
The worse was iron followed by Aluminium and Magnesium pure yuk, Titanium was tried but stupid costs and not that good.
Not all silver cables are alike….and not all copper cables are alike. You can get some expensive silver cables that sound like crap due to poor engineering just like expensive poor quality copper cables that cost an arm and a leg. Lots of guys who think they can make great cables in their basement, but don’t know anything about metals or electronics…and they’re selling them as audiophile cables…and guys who cant hear a lick are buying them.
Yes silver cables sound differently than copper. If your system isnt to good in higher frequencies and need a little help? Good silver cables may be all you need. Need a little more body, bottom end and mids….copper maybe what you need. Missing your mid section…spend a little and get some gold cables. Not all cables are alike.
Like nearly everything else in this hobby, there are few absolutes. It is difficult to interpolate, reliably, between one set of parameters and another, especially when it all hinges on a subjective final arbiter. Empirical, or, if you prefer, anecdotal evidence reigns supreme. My system, my ears, my taste are unique to me. I decide based on what I hear. Others may disagree, and chance favours that, but it matters not, to me. I only need to satisfy myself.
Considering, for a moment, the solid silver conductor, you postulate that the additional expense of Ag wire means that the wire is smaller than CU, so current flow is reduced. Setting aside the cost, for a moment, since silver is more highly conductive than copper, is there not a point where a reduced-diameter silver wire, of a particular size, would provide for current flow equal to the flow in a larger size copper wire? A ‘break-even’ point, if you will. Would the silver then still “sound bright thin and not nice”? If it does, would that mean that something other than relative current flow is causing the change in sound, since we have equal current flow in both wires? Or would we expect that the speaker would sound the same, no matter which of these two particular wires was used, since we are providing the same current flow regardless of which wire was used?
Or is there some other factor at work?
Your thoughts?
One of my favorite interconnects is the DIY silver plated copper 30 ga Kynar wire wrap in a loosely twisted pair (spaced works too ala DNM
) with low mass RCAs. One thing that really stands out is how great the bass is through these 30 ga wires. And they are not harsh or shrill at all.
Wire and Cables are probably one of the most personal components and are sooooooooo very system dependent.
In my experience, some of the “cable rules” don’t necessarily apply to low power tube amplification. Take for example speaker cables. In my experience, thicker is most certainly not better and I strongly prefer solid core cables with my system which is running SET 2A3 amplifiers.
Curious if you’ve noticed something similar or not with your lower powered designs.
Is this because the BEMF from the driver coil upsets the Transformer or Direct load on the the Tube, thus thinner has a higher resistance and therefore less energy back i.e. lower current well same energy but less current and longer time.
And no upsetting of feedback or load current , well less upset. In the case of feedback it could be a phase problem mmm I will think on it for my next tube design.
https://www.reddit.com/r/audiophile/comments/975kx7/silver_sounds_brighter/
“silver sounds brighter”
well it certainly looks brighter than copper, but is there any empirical proof/reasoning that silver “sounds” brighter than copper wire?
as far as i know, silver is a slightly better conductor than copper but for it to sound brighter, it would have to conduct higher frequencies better than copper. does silver perhaps have less skin effect etc?
or is this just more foolishness?
Its close to 7% less resistive than comparably sized copper wire, but I think the skin effect is relatively similar.. Maybe the propagation speed or magnetic field penetration depth is greater leading to higher frequency response through lowered resistance. This is just a thought, I have little to no evidence to support anything other than the resistivity hypothesis.
Foolishness yet there are tons of “golden ears” that will argue this to the end of the earth. In their mind, any measurable difference is their excuse to claim to hear a difference.
I was looking at Audiogon’s forum the other day, and one post asked “Is it possible to get close to the audio quality of an exotic speaker wire without spending thousands?”, and all the comments were like “that’s a pipe dream”, “you’re asking for a unicorn”, etc.
Silver cables only audibly affect the sound if they’re deep cryo’d initially and broken in with the proper stereophile approved break in sounds.
Also, note it helps break in greatly to run the cables backwards while playing Stairway to Heaven reversed on the Atlantic Records Cassette of Led Zeppelin II.
lol
Why do you think silver sounds brighter? Does it have anything to do with the bass being lowered in volume? Some say silver makes the bass weaker and I wonder if that would make the treble relatively louder…
So, the theory of why this may happen is that cables are first order (6dB/octave) low pass filters made out of a crappy resistor and a crappy capacitor.
https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/fil5.gif
Lowering the resistance and capacitance of the cable (LPF) raises the cutoff frequency, though there’s also an influence of the operating voltage. For guitar cables, the difference is easily audible at the extremes (e.g., a very long “normal” guitar cable compared to a short low-resistance/low-capacitance cable). I’ve never heard it at line level. I’ve definitely never heard it at speaker level. I’ve also never bothered taking out a voltmeter to see what those values actually were for any of my cables…because that seemed excessive. They should all be fine.
So silver has interesting vibrational characteristics, and since electrical signals cause it to vibrate due to the piezoelectric effect therefore silver sounds better for cables (this is how many audiophiles and reviewers think).
Now I’m seeing how myths get started: a failure to understand the concept of magnitude.
Interestingly when silver is struck it will not resonate, that’s why it is used to darken the sound of instruments. When silver vibrates it has such a minuscule amount of resonance that the only the true tone and overtones leave the instrument. And to me, all these audiophile myths and snake oil are founded in misinformation, falsehoods, and ignorance.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.stereonet.com/forums/topic/253908-anyone-else-notice-silver-plated-cables-sound-bright/
I’ve tried silver plated RCA cables a few times (can’t remember the brand) and found they sounded bright- the treble was emphasized. Why is this the case???
There is no electrical parameter that should be causing brightness here. The skin effect shouldn’t happen at audio frequencies, and yet plating the cable with silver gives the sense of high frequencies having less resistance, and a more trebbly sound. Weird!
“Anyone else notice this?”
Some yes.
Some no.
“and want to have a guess at why?”
Metallurgy/material science, different sources of metals contain different levels of impurities, and the combination/amounts of those individual impurities can vary from one source to another. One contributing aspects can be the refining processes, also the drawing process, maybe…………….and how the plating is applied and at what ratios ect’.
Just my layman understanding.
I use a pair of coax IC’s in my system where the centre conductor is silver clad copper, they lean on the warm side with no sense of brightness or emphasis in the highs, I have also used pure silver cables from Aurealis Audio that are on the warm side if anything and have no brightness or emphasis in the highs.
Purely postulation here.
Perhaps it’s actually having the interface of copper and silver continuously throughout the cable rather than the use of silver itself, meaning that pure silver copper would not be prone to that sound unlike silver plating.
Perhaps it’s more to do with the surfaces that are exposed to oxygen, either along the way or at the terminations, where oxidised copper forms on pure copper, while oxidised silver forms on the silver plating. These have quite different conductivities (silver oxide’s remains good while copper’s doesn’t) though the actual difference in resistances overall will be minuscule – whether that matters or not is a different story.
Now another postulation – whilst skin effect only has a minuscule effect on resistance overall, I actually DO believe that it makes an audible difference – the reason being the relationship between resistance, capacitance, and inductance changes across the entire frequency range, even though all these parameters are tiny in their own right. I’m sure others would disagree, but my experience with litz conductors, separately insulated wires, and flat conductors shows quite audible differences.
And to answer your opening question – yes, my experience has usually been negative with silver plated – or even solid silver – components, at least in speaker crossovers where I’ve done most of my experimentation. The fact it happens with solid silver in my case goes against my first postulation. On the other hand, I do know that my preamp uses silver plated wiring internally, and there’s nothing bright about the sound from the preamp, although I’ve obviously never rewired it with pure copper to do a comparison…
Heard it? Yes.
Accept it? Yes.
Understand it? Not at all.
In a sighted/uncontrolled test … I can hear lots of different things…. but the tell is that I can hear completely different things if the test is repeated, or if I get “tricked”. If I do a test where I plug two different types of cables in between devices and I switch back and forth between them (at leisure) from the listening position (using a remote control or similar) …. then almost always I am quickly confused/guessing.
Yes, that. Home made cables using solid neotech copper vs. no name solid milspec silver plated copper…. both with copper eichman bullet RCA plugs…. Twisted, but unshielded (for ease of construction). Also commercial cables (but not heaps, as I don’t typically do super-high $…. eg.
I thought this was well known. Silver-plated copper can sound bright in terms of the upper frequencies seeming to get a boost. But it is system dependent – that is, it depends on how your system reacts to silver-plated copper. And this in some cases comes down to how well your tweeters handle the higher frequencies.
Higher frequencies tend to group and travel on the outside surface of a strand of wire. This results in higher frequencies potentially running into a higher resistance – more stuff trying to get through a thinner space – while at the same time the lower frequencies travel more towards the centre of the wire. To reduce the resistance at the surface of the wire, you can apply silver-plating with the aim of keeping the resistance for the high frequencies and lower frequencies around the same. So you don’t lose the amplitude of the high end compared to the low end. But how to get this perfect? Most likely very difficult to do when it comes to music where the frequency range is largely variable from track to track , and artist to artist.
Too much silver and the high frequencies end up getting less resistance through the silver than the lower frequencies do in the copper. Hence the higher frequencies have a bit more amplitude than they should. This normally doesn’t cause issues if your tweeters are a bit on the dull side, but if they’re not you might feel that you want to turn the amplitude of the high frequencies down a bit.
Yes, this is what would be called skin effect and it does apply. It always applies to a piece of wire to some extent. The issue of whether you should be able to hear it or not at audio frequencies is a mixed one, but as a lot of people do I can’t see that science disagrees with them.
Silver-plated copper mil spec wire in teflon insulation is some of the best quality wire in the world at a very cheap price. It can work extremely well in some systems. But it was developed for general communication purposes and obviously worked well or so much of it wouldn’t still be produced.
Thanks. Good post. As you’ll understand, since I started the thread, I did hear brightness when I tried silver plated copper cables. However I was told at electronics school that the skin effect isn’t meant to happen at audio frequencies. 20khz is virtually DC in comparison to the sort of frequencies used in modern RF and data – GHz.
Well, unless it’s true that any frequency which is higher than a lower frequency travels more towards the outside edge of the wire at any frequency, even near DC?
I could have been told the wrong thing?
Because as you know, to pass the test, all you have to do is repeat what you’ve been told…..
Yes, I appreciate the point you make between DC and AC – and I was actually thinking of speaker cables when I replied, although re-reading I see that was not what you asked about. But it was what was on my mind ?
Yet what people describe about speaker cables in terms of hearing also appears to be the same thing people describe about RCA cables with silver-plated copper.
For AC at least the American Wire Tables give a value for skin effect down to very fine gauges (e.g. 40 awg). Around 18 awg and thinner should be the gauge at which people notice no high frequency loss due to skin effect. That is most loss occurs above 17kHz. Although I’ve found that people can often tell if a cable has been made with 20 awg or 24 awg as they describe the thinner gauge wire (in bundles) as having higher frequency detail. Skin effect in those cases is well-above 20kHz.
I’ve tried the “very silver” end – pure silver cables in an xlr config as interconnects between pre and power amps, and yes – in my system too bright. Lots of detail but not “good” to my ear. I went back to my (cheaper) copper (with some silver) cables and much preferred them. These were not subtle differences either.
On the other hand, the same pure silver cables sounded great in a mate’s system, but his gear is much less revealing. Interesting…..
Most of the skin effect tables you will read describe the absolute skin effect depth where there is no further conductivity, being around 18 awg for 20kHz as you said. However, this is an exponential function, and by that point the conductance is zero (at the core of the wire) so making the cable thicker does not add any further conductance at those frequencies. This is why often skin effect tables recommend more along the lines of 20awg where conductivity has dropped by 63%, or 24 awg where conductivity does not drop at all for anything below 17kHz. To actually get identical conductivity between 20-20,000 Hz you need 25 awg. However, the actual amount of overall resistance increase is so minuscule that it’s debatable whether this is audible or not. My experience says it is.
Using silver plated copper for where the high frequencies travels sounds good in theory but the fact is that the low frequencies get to travel in the silver part as well, and the silver part adds very little overall conductance – the relationship between skin depth, and the 6% higher conductivity of silver means there is no clear “ideal” way to make this tiny silver plating make up for the difference based on pure conductivity for the high frequencies only – copper’s resistance is already extremely low.
For example at 10khz, audio will occupy the top ~0.5mm of the conductor…. ie. the entire conductor, if it were 1mm in diameter.
If we take common plating thicknesses (say, 0.002mm), the silver is a very (!!!) low percentage of the medium, and it is only <10% more conductive anyway.
Empirically….We can connect devices with different cables and measure their output and observe the change to confirm the theory holds in practise.
If there's a clear difference in sound, then there is a different cause than skin effect increasing the amplitude of high audio frequencies due to increased flow in the silver (lower resistance) plating.
Tomi Engdahl says:
The Naked Truth about Speaker-Cables
Bananas, bananas. More lengths of cable talk we have to do….
https://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/spkcbl_e.html
Cables – are they different?
So what makes the average High-End Cable tick and what can be considered as “universally” good?
I divide audible effects affecting the performance of the Cable into three Orders. They are the First, Second and Third in order of Importance and sonic impact. See ” The Naked Truth about Interconnect-Cables” for a more detailed description of these orders of effects.
It should be noted that depending on external and interface conditions second order effects and first order effects can sometimes change places in terms of magnitude….
I would propose, that the usual RLC parameters (as with Resistance [R] , Inductance [L] and Capacitance [C] ) should be viewed as first order effects, though not in all situations each parameter carries the same weighting.
Let’s have an example for the different weighting in RLC Parameters, due to the relevant source and load impedance’s. In Interconnects the source-impedance is between a few ohms and a few kilo-ohm and load impedance between 10 kilo-ohm and about 1 mega-ohm (both usually mostly resistive).
As a result the Capacitance (C) is a prevalent characteristic with Resistance (R) and Inductance (L) relegated usually BELOW most second Order Effects in their magnitude of sonic impact.
A second order effect, the Dielectric Absorbtion (DA) becomes here a first order effect in audible magnitude. So the main parameters for Interconnects are C and DA as long as R and L are kept in sane regions (see “The naked Truth about Interconnects”).
The Skin effect remains relevant (but firmly in the second Order Camp) as does the Maxwell Effect (more on both later).
The limitation in bandwidth is mostly effected by the Lowpass Filter composed out of the source-impedance and the cable’s capacitance. A Bandwidth of about 100 kHz is desirable for this interface to make sure that the phase-shift and frequency response drop at 20 kHz remain acceptable.
The DA will determine time-smear and distortion of the Cable together with further second order effect and the third order effects…..
Let’s look at Speaker-Cables.
Here the impedance’s are, a source impedance of about 0.1 Ohm to about 8 ohm. It is mostly resistive with small inductive component and the load is 2-16 Ohm average impedance but has large reactive variations. Most Speakers also show an about 50 uH – 100 uH residual inductance from the uncompensated tweeter inductance.
Thus, unlike as in Interconnects, the Capacitance and DA can (mostly) be relegated into the second Order Camp. Due to the low impedance’s in the load and the Source impedance of the Amplifier, the R and L of the Speaker Cable become highly relevant.
The Skin and Maxwell-Effects are being promoted from second order effect to first order Status. The bandwidth of the Cable and the frequency-dependent phaseshift will be a direct function of these parameters.
The Situation is complicated by the fact that certain amplifiers are very sensitive to capacitive components in the Speaker-load (NVA, NAIM, Linn to name a few culprits). So with Speaker-Cables indeed many bet’s are off.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Benefits & Drawbacks of High Capacitance Speaker Cables
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/benefits-drawbacks-of-high-capacitance-speaker-cables.20767/
I was curious to hear what some of the benefits and drawbacks are with using a speaker cable that has a higher then normal capacitance specification per/ft?
You can obsess about specs, but capacitance is not considered an issue with speaker cables. Inductance and resistance are. With interconnects, capacitance can be an issue, however, but usually only for long runs.
The thing is a cable is dealing with electrical loads on both ends that are not completely and precisely known, especially with speakers where the load varies with frequency. A cable has to be synergistic and complementary to those loads. Even an Electrical Engineer could not tell you what will sound best, especially not to you and your ears. Note, however, that tube gear sometimes is more sensitive to cables than is sold state, because of the specic loading presented by the electronics.
So, we are back to the old trial and error via listening. I have done that a few times, and it is a royal pain because the differences can be really tiny. You really have to work at controlling your biases in the process. I did not find that the most expensive cable won the day for me. But, it is easy to delude oneself. However, if the differences are audibly small to minuscule, which has been my experience, what’s the big deal? Just get the cheap one. A day later, you will have no idea what those differences were as you listen to the music instead of the cables. Don’t let your mind and obsessions ruin your music listening.
For most amplifiers capacitive loading is a don’t-care. Even for tubes the roll-off is usually well above the audio band. Say 10 feet, 500 pF/foot, 1 ohm for amp and cable, and just multiplying the capacitance (too lazy to calculate the distributed effects) gives you about 31.83 kHz bandwidth. Your pet dogs and bats may be happier…
So likely little audible effect in the cable itself; as Fitz said it is all about amp/cable/speaker interaction.
The biggest con is likely to be the rare amplifier that goes unstable when presented with a highly-capacitive load. Since such instability tends to be exhibited as HF oscillation you won’t know until a fuse blows or the amp overheats and shuts down, or worst-case fries your tweeters with full-amplitude suprasonic signal, but these days that is unlikely with a decent amp. Have seen it happen (once at CES!) in the past.
The only cables that could be an issue for too much capacitance are ribbon cables oriented one atop the other, like an unrolled film cap. Goertz sells a correction network so their cables won’t cause problems. This is really an attempt to get the inductance as low as possible.
What seems to matter more is geometry, the right geometry is the key between an average and a good cable.
What I’ve noticed is most cables will provide relatively small differences UNTIL you try a cable that really works well in your system, then it can be a game changer.
The cable that blew up amps was woven or braided, kind of a Litz-wire construction, many small individually-insulated wires all interleaved/interwoven in a bundle to create the cable. The idea was to reduce skin effect, as if that really matters at audio (and shows a clear lack of what skin effect really means and does), but at the end IIRC they had a cable with inductance marginally lower than a regular pair of speaker cables, similar resistance, and much (MUCH!) higher capacitance.
Yeah, the DIY cat-5 cables… I made them many years ago and they suck. They are NOT made in a litz configuration though! They are made with twisted pairs used for +/- in a repetitive braided structure. An actual litz type arrangement would have worked far better. Goertz speaker cables can kill amps too if their correction network isn’t purchased and used with them, they are basically unrolled capacitors.
Also, it is true that many strands of thinner wire arranged in a litz configuration is far better than single runs of larger wire.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Are Expensive Speaker Cables Actually Worth It? Here’s What You Need to Know
https://www.gearpatrol.com/tech/audio/a669895/speaker-cables-buying-guide/
The main problems with assessing cables are psychological. Specifically, placebo effect and comparative listening play havoc with our judgments. Sometimes you just hear what you want to hear, especially if you’re trying to justify a pricey purchase.
Blind A/B tests, where the listeners don’t know what they’re hearing, are the more or less the gold standard of the hi-fi scene, and yet they’re rife with problems. Comparative listening is not how we actually listen to music, and the effort of comparing, which relies on short term memory, engages areas of the brain that aren’t engaged when just chilling out and listening. T
Let’s get physical
When it comes to conducting electricity–which is what cables do when they form a path for fast-moving electrons–there are some basic physical phenomena to consider. And based on the nature of physics alone, we can rule out some variables that almost certainly don’t have a perceptible effect on sound.
Cheat Sheet: Speaker Cables
Capacitance is the ability of a conductor to store an electrical charge.
While a cable may do this, it is highly unlikely for even a low-quality cable to store a charge that will impact a stereo system. It would be hard to find a cable with an inappropriate capacitance rating.
Affect on sound: Little if any.
Inductance is the tendency of an electrical conductor to oppose a change in the electrical current going through it, thus creating electromagnetic fields. Though inductance provides a number of essential forces within stereo components, even basic cables in a relatively normal stereo system do not generate inductance worth considering because, unless you are making cables very very wrong, the materials used are appropriate for the application.
Affect on sound: Little if any.
Resistance (also called impedance) is the tendency of a component in an electrical system to resist the flow of electrical current.
Affect on sound: Some! Cables can produce enough resistance to hinder the performance of a stereo system.
Length and gauge (thickness) of a wire will determine a speaker cable’s resistance to some degree. Therefore when buying speaker cables, it’s important to know the resistance of the speaker the cable will feed, as well as how far away that speaker is from the amplifier. When choosing speakers cables, be sure to use equal lengths for both the left and right channels so that resistance is matched.
Raise your shield
Cheat Sheet: Analog Interconnects
Electricity is noisy, especially in cities where thousands of newfangled electronic devices are drawing on old public power systems. Radio frequencies can add noise to an electrical system. Also, electrical components themselves produce electromagnetic fields, especially power amps, computer monitors, and televisions.
Speaker cables are not shielded. The current from an amplifier to a speaker is strong enough that outside interference isn’t an issue. Interconnects between components, however, should be shielded.
Shields are either made from a copper mesh, a solid metal wrap (copper or aluminum), or a conductive polymer. These shields are wrapped around the conductors and then wrapped in the outer material of the cable (rubber or another polymer, sometimes braided nylon fabric). Shields are typically grounded at both ends (though sometimes just one end is grounded in the case of ground loops – usually not a problem is modern homes with 3-prong outlets).
Metal mesh and conductive polymers are preferred in recording studios because they can be physically handled for years without breaking. Full metal shields are excellent, but best for permanent installations in which the cable will stay put and the shield will not get physically worked.
Find out what kind of shielding is used in the cable you’re buying, and make sure it’s appropriate for your use. Don’t pay extra for conductive polymers unless you’re planning to handle the cables regularly. For home stereo use, a solid metal shield is a solid choice.
Make sure the cable is well built.
The critical points for any cable are the solder joints between the wires and the connectors at the ends.
Similarly, good connectors are a must, but they don’t have to cost a fortune. Very few cable companies make their own connectors, so you’re likely to see the same ones used across many brands and price points.
Consider gold for exposed parts
Gold is not a bad idea for exposed parts of connectors because, unlike copper, gold does not corrode and it is a good conductor. Gold isn’t necessary, but over time it will resist corrosion. Especially important for those living in high-humidity areas.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.audioreputation.com/coaxial-speaker-cable/
Advantages and Disadvantages of Coaxial Speaker Cable
The only advantage we could think of is related to the shielding and to coax cable’s resistance to interference. To find out more, we’ve had to consult the specialists. According to Mogami’s official website, the advantages of their coax speaker cable are:
Thick conductor (almost 14AWG)
Very low induction
Suitable impedance for speaker wire
Better sound quality than regular parallel speaker wire configuration
Note: Have in mind that these advantages apply only to Mogami’s coax speaker cable.
The disadvantages of using coax cables as speaker cables are more obvious:
They are more expensive than regular speaker wire
They are heavier and less flexible than regular speaker wire
It takes longer to run and hide the speaker cable
The capacitance of the cable is higher, which could result in some instability issues, especially when using long cables
Is Coaxial Speaker Cable Worth It?
So, even though you can use coax cable as speaker wire, is it worth it? Will you get any audible improvements if you use a coaxial speaker cable instead of a regular speaker wire?
In our experience, the difference between the two doesn’t really justify the price difference and all the hassle. So, we don’t think it’s worth it.
However, not everyone agrees with this statement.
Can I Make a Coaxial Speaker Cable on My Own?
There’re numerous DIY tutorials explaining how to make coaxial speaker cable. Some are very detailed and fairly easy to follow. Others are short and confusing.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Types of Cables, Purpose, Advantages, Disadvantages, Applications
https://instrumentationtools.com/types-of-cables/
While selecting the cable, a type of data transfer, purpose, advantages, and disadvantages taken into consideration.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Do audio connector materials matter?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PI8I6eu4RwM
Audio connectors mostly have a thin layer of precious metal like gold or silver on them, but what of the base material they are made of?
Viewer comments:
Just try to always keep all of your connectors in the audio signal path NON-ferromagnetic, (i.e. not magnetic), because magnetic materials, (such as iron and steel, etc), greatly affect the inductance of a terminal, and you don’t want any or too much inductance in a terminal, (or cable), because added inductance CAN noticeably affect the sound quality, (albeit very minutely in just a terminal or connector, as Paul mentioned), but so if you at least stay away from any terminals or connectors that are affected significantly by a magnet, (like quite a few cheap quality binding posts and especially “push” spring clip type connectors on many (lower-middle end) speakers and such are), then you’ll be better off.
You can quickly use a neodymium magnet like on a good quality “magnetic pickup tool”, etc. to easily test the terminals on any component or speaker to see if it is magnetic, (less than ideal), or not. Hopefully, (at least if it’s a “better” quality connector anyway), it WON’T be magnetic…
The same thing goes for the actual leads on any given component in a speaker crossover itself, including the capacitors and resistors especially, because oftentimes the cheaper quality capacitors such as electrolytic and most mylar ones will have magnetic leads, but most all polypropylene or better ones won’t be magnetic. (Just one of the many reasons that polypropylene capacitors almost always tend to sound better than electrolytic ones especially.)
Resistors are similar, in the fact that most truly audio grade resistors for speaker crossovers will have non-magnetic, (usually plated copper), leads, whereas the cheaper quality resistors that aren’t specifically made for speaker crossovers will usually have steel leads or terminals instead.
The actual inductors of a speaker crossover themselves will be made out of copper wire (or copper foil, etc) already, so they are usually already good… But the CORE of an inductor is also something to consider, and the air-core coils tend to usually sound better than the coils with an iron or laminated steel core, due to steel and iron “saturating” (distorting the sound) with higher level signals going through them… But THAT is another topic, (“can of worms”), entirely… WAY too much to get into here, lol!
i like speakon connectors.
Yeah, they’re not bad, but it’s too bad that they’re not ever even offered on home speakers, only on so-called “professional” stage stuff.
BTW, is your screen name a funny, carefree reference to the “mayhem” that I.C.P. rap about in their songs?
The rectifying effect of a metal oxide connection can cause a problem at low voltages (signal levels) that’s why gold is used (it doesn’t oxidise) on phono and other signal connectors. Copper is known to flow away from points of pressure but when alloyed copper can be quite hard, also the surface area of the connecting surfaces matters at higher power levels.
As an engineer I always understood that skin effect isn’t significant at audio frequencies.
It’s more a consideration in RF and UHF systems. Therefore audio current will happily flow through a gold plated brass connector as well as on the surface of it.
You understood correctly. At audio frequencies the skin dept in copper is generally larger than the conductor strands if flows through. Of course in stranded wire this will hold true to well beyond HF frequencies.
Correct. Skin effect is an issue at radio frequencies, way above audio frequencies.
Skin effect does start to be significant at upper audio frequencies. My experience is from driving yokes on CRTs, at 15,750 Hz (old TV horizontal frequency). We tried several types of wire, ie litz wire, multiple stranding, etc. The best we found at 31.5 kHz was 6- 20 gauge insulated strands in parallel. Skin depth is also a significant factor for wiring a transformer for switching power supplies.
Generally clean connector interfaces make more of a difference than the individual materials (to me). Every so often it helps to clean and treat connector interfaces (stabilant) as over time they can degrade from normal impurities in the air. Older non-gold or tin seem more prone to this. Lot’s of discussion “out there” on ferrous material used in connectors. I haven’t found that to be a particular issue other than the increased tendency to corrode.
Yes, completely agree on this. I’ve been struggling with an HDMI connector recently where the video signal (digital) became unstable every so many days (typically a couple of weeks) and I had to unplug the connector and connect it again to make the issue go away. I suspect the gold surface of some pin in the connector of the HDMI switch has worn out and surface corrosion is causing the issue.
Try treating all your connectors with DeOxit D5. It improves connections by removing & preventing oxidation. I also treat all my fuse ends and their holders with it too.
My only issue with brass is that its conductivity is around three times lower than copper. I’m fact it is only 50% greater than steel. Seems to me like a poor material choice for any electrical application. In the grail speakers I’m slowly building now with Seas excel drivers, I refuse to place brass in the signal path. I’ll spend 5x more for Cardas solid copper binding posts.
That was a good question. I never found connectors to matter or make any difference in sound be they binding posts, banana plugs, spring clips, etc. The metal that they were made of made no difference in sound either. The only time that I’ve had problems is if they were so poorly made that they wouldn’t stay adequately connected. And I haven’t had too much of that problem.
speakon connectors are good.
Correct Paul, I’ve been a bare wire connection guy for years. The improvement of the quality of spades and bananas. Outside of convenience their is no difference.
If you have connectors that are resistant to oxidation (or clean them) and are mechanically robust enough to withstand your environment without breaking or coming disconnected and designed to prevent shorting across +and- it’ll be fine. AND one more thing. RCA connectors that yeet the grounds off your jacks when you pull them off just PISS ME OFF to no end.
Brass is copper alloyed with zinc. Bronze is copper alloyed with tin. High brass (more than 70% copper) has a conductivity about half that of pure copper which is one reason why banana plugs made of brass have a CSA of 12.5 mm2 ( 4 mm diameter) which is more than double that of even the largest speaker cable to make up for the higher resistivity. If you crimp the speaker cable properly you get a cold weld which is far superior to solder or binding posts- coat the surfaces in gold which won’t rust you get a long lasting connection which requires no maintenance. Whether it sounds better is down to psychology.
Sorry Paul, cables do NOT make a huge difference. Moderately priced cables with mechanically good connectors are just fine. Spending hundreds or thousands on cables is insanity. Speaker cables carry audio frequencies. It is only at much higher radio frequencies where cable and connector construction is important. All this nonsense about skin effect etc. is snake oil marketing. Paul. Spreading this misinformation renders all your comment open to question.
Brass is copper/zinc, bronze is copper/tin, all very good conductors of electricity
Tomi Engdahl says:
Perfect stereo image of a piano
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tN1ABcE7es
Tomi Engdahl says:
Impedance matching and cables
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZrRv506PGAg
How much does impedance matter in cables? Find out the truth.
Viewer comments:
What? Paul, you’d better check your facts, man. This is one of your worst videos yet, and probably the only one I’ve seen where you’re just flat wrong. Cable impedance, expressed in ohms at a particular frequency, is not particularly useful in audio, but it does matter. Painfully, it matters most in the situation you explained that it doesn’t, that of MC phono cartridge loading. Phono cables frequently have a capacitance of 30 to 50 picofarads per meter in parallel to the loading capacitor in the preamp. This means the two capacitances add together, and you may in fact run into issues with this with the wrong combo of cartridge, cables, and preamp. It generally matters much less for other cables (e.g. from a preamp to a power amp, or a CD player or DAC to a pre), but at least a few cable manufacturers and audiophiles claim that the capacitance of these interconnects is responsible for audible differences, so there you go. This info is no good, all viewers take note!
I think that bunching or coiling loudspeakers cables measuring over 6 feet or more create some resistance or impedance. Stretching them and keeping them to some extent away from power cables improves the sound. More solid bass and clarity in the upper frequencies imo.
There is a difference between a resistance and an impedance.
yes but capacitance and inductance does play a factor so length of cable does play a factor
The only consideration for speaker cables, is their series resistance. You want that to be as low as practical; excessive length will compromise your amplifier’s damping factor. Adding couplers isn’t a problem if they are good quality, but the fewer connections in the speaker circuit, the less likely you are to have issues with them.
Pro-Tip: If you want good impedance matching to your speakers, don’t use tube amps. Even the best ones from companies like McIntosh will still have about 0.5Ω of output impedance due to the need to use an output transformer. Many tube amps are far worse, and this causes the speakers dynamic impedance of the loudspeaker to pull the output of the amp around, with the net result that the speakers frequency response now bears the shape of its impedance curve if the output impedance is bad enough. And this doesn’t even cover the issues of their very poor linearity in many cases. It’s not
Copper in and of itself acts as a filter, it is a filter. That is why there is a difference in sound from 1 cable to another. Length, AWG also matters. Copper is not just copper, there are different purities of copper. The best so far being OCC copper. OFC (oxygen free) being second, and everything else can have anything in it. Yes cable quality does matter in sound reproduction. I say if you really had the very best high end cables available at every point in your system, you may not like what you here most of the time because the clarity is so good you here more imperfections rather than coloration. But when you do here a good clean track you will be blown away at how good it is.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517919938413134/permalink/1723785451159904/
Can any analog mid/side matrix *really* compete with the digital equivalent? coming from a dsp background you can do the math for the conversion with perfection ie. do it 1,000,000 times back and forth and still get the same result. it seems like in analog world the 2 solutions are transformer based, where you have to spend a small fortune to achieve *close* to linearity (with frequency and distortion well in low end anyway), or op-amp solution where some of the cross-talk figures i have seen are not good at best. another set of AD/DA conversion would achieve better cross-talk specs and maybe even better distortion specs, and more frequency linearity, if the converters are great quality… discuss lol
Hard to imagine you’re going to get new light shed on an argument this old.
Perhaps one way to look at it is: if you’re already in digital domain, you should certainly stay there. If you’re avoiding A/D/A, for whatever reasons, that reason still applies.
Perfection has no sound
Tomi Engdahl says:
The cable shield works best when the signal lines are completely surrounded by a conductive “tunnel” that is completely at ground potential. That means it should be grounded at BOTH ends (grounded at one end means the other end is similar to an antenna at some frequencies).
Tomi Engdahl says:
Can we hear a difference between MP3 and FLAC?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lclkwHmAwy4
There are big technical difference between MP3 and FLAC. How audible are these?
Viewer comments:
About 13 years ago there was an article in Stereophile Magazine about this and it showed scope differences of MP3 vs FLAC and Apple. On the various tone burst you could see distinct degrading of sound quality. It likened the sound to a highly pixelated photo to a high res photo. Question was: can people hear the difference? As a H.S. tech ed teacher and teaching at the local community college, I had a range of subjects I could ask to volunteer. I made a CD of 6 tracks of about 30 seconds each. I choose well recorded tracks and made one FLAC and one MP3 128k about as good as it got at that time. Some tracks the FLAC was first, then the MP3. Others is was reverse order. Subjects were asked to choose which sounded better to them A or B? They were also asked their gender, age and if they have ever had any musical training. I used the CD in various computer CD drives over the years but all listened through my Sennheiser HD 280 pro headphones. Over all results to date, with over 70 test subjects are: 71% can tell the difference with people under 21 doing even better. Females overall do somewhat better than males. Musical training does not seem to be much of a factor. I use this mostly to demonstrate the collection of statistics and how to find results with the raw data. The only variable, other than the computers used which I doubt makes all that much difference, are the test subjects.
I think I’ve only heard the difference between a 320 kbps MP3 and lossless under very specific circumstances, which is a raw drum recording, where an extremely sharp snaredrum transient is preceded by total silence. In that case there will typically be a slight pre-ring, other than that I feel that people need to prove they can hear the difference in a blind test or shut up. I have still to see anyone do it reliably.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Balanced audio and SET amps
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKSKQzOx1uY
Viewer comments:
Unbalanced RCA connections are just fine for the short runs in most home systems. If you can hear hum or other noise being picked up by your cables then this should be investigated and corrected. Changing to balanced may mask the problem which may still exist. In a properly set up home system there will be no audible difference between balanced and unbalanced. The high levels of second harmonic distortion from a SET amplifier is far more problematic.
A balanced connection helps cancel noise picked up down the length of the cable.
If you are not getting noise / interference coming into your cable conductors, then no need for balanced.
But… there is always some level of interference hitting the copper conductors, don’t care how good the shielding is.
Hence low mic level signals are ALWAYS balanced.
You may think you can’t tell the difference with line level… but.. I’d say what is the point in being an audiophile if you are not using balanced connections.
Or maybe people like second harmonics because live music tends to have more of them so it makes the music sound more present in the room.
Personally ill take benign 2nd harmonic over the crossover distortion and transconductance droop of a push pull design
If the equipment has sockets for balanced connections then use balanced cables. It can only help. Just because there may be no noise at any given moment doesn’t mean that some external electro-magnetic interference will never occur. The longer the cable run the more advantageous balanced connections are. If the equipment only has analog audio over RCA phono type connections and you are getting hum or some other type of electrical noise the best solution is to connect all interconnected equipment to a balanced power isolation transformer, e.g., a Furman IT-1210. That will completely eliminate the possibility of ground loops and also isolate equipment from power line spikes and noise.
Tomi Engdahl says:
What do audiophiles want?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IJRMQkpP1k
A classic question answered!
Tomi Engdahl says:
Digital vs the soul of vinyl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ILehrmJUco
Vinyl is said to have soul while digital audio can often be sterile. What’s the difference?
Tomi Engdahl says:
Why musicians don’t use audiophile speakers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFfWHwMzmmI
Musicians seem happy with ordinary consumer speakers. Given their great ears, why is that?
Tomi Engdahl says:
Ted explains DSD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xafLYw6EuZ4
DSD is explained by DirectStream lead designer Ted Smith
Tomi Engdahl says:
I have used several cables from Tasker over the years because they were well available from my nearest electronics shop and they were quite good quality at reasonable price. I have used mostly their video cables (RGB75) and microphone cables (C114,C280,C202).
Tomi Engdahl says:
Do Audiophile Power Cables Make A Difference?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rgun97VK7y8
We are sometimes asked our opinion of exotic power cords and cables and whether or not they are beneficial or worth the added cost over the stock power cords that come with A/V electronics. With the help of Blue Jeans Cable, we explore the importance of properly designed power cords while simultaneously debunking the myths and bogus claims perpetuated by many exotic cable manufacturers and A/V review magazines. Always remember the Audioholics.com mantra “only poorly designed cables can be sonically distinguishable” and you will never make a bad purchasing decision. Once all of the nonsensical claims are peeled away, only three very basic and essential metrics are left to ensure quality power transfer from your wall outlet to your A/V gear which we discuss in detail in this Youtube video and related article.
Audiophile Power Cords – Do they really make a difference?
https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/power-cables
Tomi Engdahl says:
I was Wrong about High Res Music, Cables, IEMs, Measurements, Speaker Stands
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4RPUJpMGnA
Viewer comments:
You’re the man Randy, to admit to a change of point of view takes guts, a lot of people fight tooth and nail for their original point of view no matter what. The truth is that we learn and grow as time goes and get more exposure to new experiences.
My rule of thumb is if I have to strain myself to hear the difference, it’s not worth it. Never critical listen. Life is short. So much music to enjoy!
My gear upgrades simply fixes one annoyance or another. ‘Good enough’ is end game.
Tomi Engdahl says:
The Truth About Vinyl – Vinyl vs. Digital
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzRvSWPZQYk
Tomi Engdahl says:
Why are high end DACs so expensive?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzzzXWjL5go
You can buy a DAC for under $100. Why are high-end ones so much more?
Viewer comments:
Thanks Paul, you justified me buying my Behringer interface. If you’re chasing the gold standard, get the PS analog to digital converter. If you’re living in the “that’s good enough” world, get the Behringer. It’s all about budgets and what level of “pure sound” you’re after. Of course if you get the gold standard, you’d better have good speakers so that that “purer sound” can be realized in your listening environment. I’m counting on people using my music while they wash dishes, do general house work, drive in noisy cars, or listen through earbuds or cell phone speakers. If I had all audiophiles, and their associated systems, listening to my music, I’d have to invest in more expensive recording equipment. For what most listeners are listening through, and in what environments they are listening in, I think that the economy one will work for me, and my recordings. Thanks for the explanation, Paul. That was interesting.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Measuring The Room’s Response : Building A Studio Pt. 4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBUzSmfkYgU
Tomi Engdahl says:
Single ended amplifiers
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzlvTgjTehw
Low powered single ended amplifiers sound extraordinary. Is it because they are small and vacuum tube?
Viewer comments:
Excellent explanation. They may not be efficient but the sound is magical.
Definitely, Neil. I haven’t heard anything that truly rivals a SET amp with high sensitivity speakers.
Perhaps it is worth adding that single-ended amplifiers, by their nature, produce even harmonics, while push-pull harmonics produce odd harmonics. Even harmonics create consonance, which is the basis of musicality that creates a magical atmosphere. They are pleasant to the ear and desirable in contrast to odd harmonics, which are not pleasant to perceive.
Much simpler to design too, don’t have to worry about a phase inverter for push-pull and worry about crossover distortion or anything.
Single-ended amps tend to produce more second-harmonic distortion, which in the right quantities can be quite euphonic. The first Delco (General Motors) solid-state car radios had a single massive Germanium power transistor, working as an emitter follower, with an air-gapped iron-core choke between the emitter and ground. The car speakers (usually two, one in front and one in back) were wired in parallel with this choke. With two 3.2-ohm speakers, this arrangement could make a relatively undistorted eight watts or so. They sounded very warm indeed. Of course, it was AM radio! These amps continued on into the early 70′s, when quad eight-tracks came out. There would be a massive aluminum heatsink under the dash with four of those huge transistors on it, and the radio would pull a constant 16 amps or so any time it was turned on.
EDIT: I forgot to mention, the line driver (final stage) of the legendary 1176 compressor uses a similar circuit, except instead of a choke it uses an actual transformer. And of course, most SET amplifiers put the output tranny in the plate circuit (collector, if solid-state).
I love SE tube designs, especially the more powerful 845/805/211 but as you said in terms of energy efficiency I can’t buy it in 2022 while Greta marching the streets. Those are amps from another era. I don’t want to go class D either, but IMO a decent 50W class A/B is a fair compromise.’
Single ended uses a single (positive) supply rail to drive the tubes or npn devices. However this mandates the use of large coupling caps at the output to block the DC bias. These caps can contibute low frequency distortion when driven close to their rated voltage. They can also limit the low end response of the amp. The Dynaco 120 was a popular SE amp in the early 70s. Folks who have rebuilt them love the sound.
Thumbs-up for “distortion when driven close to their rated voltage”. Things have to be designed properly. As Paul said, push-pull requires each ‘half’ to be complementary. There’s a 1980′s p-p power amp on my bench which has NO capacitors in the signal path. It’s a right pain because every pair of transistors was hand matched in the factory.
Direct coupled output stages have nothing to do with class of operation. My tweeters run on class A amps with no coupling capacitor*. It’s just a matter of using symmetrical power supplies like +24v and -24v so the output signal is at ground with zero signal. There are a lot of other benefits from a DC coupled amp as well such as no capacitor distortion. Another benefit is cost reduction. A stereo amp with a single rail power supply requires three large capacitors, power supply and one for each amp as an output capacitor. A DC amp only needs two, one for each side of the power supply. This is a win-win with lower cost and higher audio quality.
*I do have an external 33uf foil capacitors at the tweeters which means that don’t ever see below 600hz. Reason is any pop or other low frequencies that get through the amp will quickly destroy a direct connected tweeter. In a normal speaker the crossover provides this protection. I learned this the hard way with two $300 Vifa tweeters destroyed while adjusting the crossover and accidentally letting bass through the tweeter amp.
“Direct coupled output stages have nothing to do with class of operation.” You are correct.
“It’s just a matter of using symmetrical power supplies like +24v and -24v so the output signal is at ground with zero signal.” You are incorrect in saying ‘JUST a matter’. The two halves must complement each other, as Paul said in the video, with facial expression that said that’s not a trivial thing. When carefully designed (in my example, with hand-matched transistors) it’s MORE than a matter of symmetrical power supplies.
300B Single-Ended Triode Tube amps are musical. And that due to the 2nd order harmonics. But, driving a Klipsch Heritage Premium ( 102db sensitivity ) it’s frighteningly magical and realistic.
Klipsch speakers tend to sound better when driven by tubes amps.
I’m not sure that “magical” and “realistic” belong in the same sentence. I’m sure you are hearing more of the former and less of the latter.
Some time ago I was involved with the BAS and the MIT Media Lab to quantify the “tube” sound. What it was and how to create it using non-tube electronics. Once we had defined what it was we shared those results and some companies put the solution into their products. One of the easiest ways is to take a very good solid state amplifier and put a tube stage at the input. PS Audio does such a thing with some of their amps.
Given a non-audiophile audience, and presented with the “tube” sound, there will be a 90% preference for the tube sound. Even with all the distortion components.
Tube amps ( single ended or not ) have been described in a variety of ways. “Musical”, “realistic, “Open”, “Air”, “Space” and on and on and on. Paul uses lots of these tags. It all describes in a nice way the low level Second Order Distortion components imparted on the signal. They are NOT accurate. But, there is a very high preference for the sound.
Uber accurate Solid State amps have correctly been described as “dry” and “cold. Correct. And also highly accurate. Most people won’t prefer that.
Tomi Engdahl says:
It’s about time….
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDzS_kKdXkc
INDEX:
00:00 – Intro
00:33 – What is Quasar?
01:28 – It is all about timing!
02:39 – How do they perform?
03:26 – Commenters…
04:08 – No more Mixcubes or NS-10s?
04:49 – The background story of Quasar
05:13 – George’s tweaked PMC setup
06:04 – Mobile Studio setup
06:38 – You can’t buy Quasar..
07:33 – Questions?
08:05 – Disclosure
08:35 – Support me!
Tomi Engdahl says:
Reference Equipment
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gvKNIs5fmc
What makes something a reference product?
Viewer comments:
“Because there are no standards” and that sums up in a nutshell all that is wrong with the audiophile world. Standards exist, but the problem with standards and something like sound reproduction is that, well, its sound reproduction. Once a target standard has been set, and manufacturers follow it, all subsequent equipment, more or less, sounds the same, and that’s a problem if you are trying to differentiate yourself. If your two speaker “three blobs” stereo imaging system sounds like the other manufacturers, then why would someone want to automatically prefer it? But if you can convince them that your three blob stereo speakers actually produce a holographic, lush image that’s rich and revealing instead of the phantom channel blob in the middle that it actually has, then that will help get you noticed.
You get to hear many reviewers out here in the space, and every one of them will mention that this, or that piece of equipment is their reference. Simply put, it is the piece of gear that you know well in your system that you use to compare other pieces of gear against. No 2 audiophiles will agree on any single piece. Its a personal thing.
Tomi Engdahl says:
How to listen at low volumes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Az2UG3zvJNw
When the neighbors are complaining about the loudness of your system, you pretty much have to turn the level down.
Viewer systems:
Moving the speakers into a nearfield listening position can also help as the the listener would hear real increased levels while the total sound output, and hence what others perceive would still be less. Thanks Paul!
Back in my student days I couldn’t play music loud when my fellow students were sleeping during the day, but I had a modest Japanese integrated amp with a loudness button. The fixed loudness curve only worked over a very small range of low volumes, but over that narrow range it did sound quite a bit better than leaving it flat.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Should you cover your audio inputs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pSyuRsYRYA
A lot of audiophiles swear by the use of input shorting plugs on their unused audio inputs. Is this a good practice? What’s it trying to accomplish and does it work?
Viewer comments:
Great explanation Paul. Shorting plugs are only needed when an amplifier is poorly designed to allow itself to create noise by an unused inputs causing cross-talk into active inputs. If it can do audible cross-talk by just being unconnected, chances are that it can also cause cross-talk when having an actual signal. Get yourself a better pre-amp if you have such problem.
Hello, Paul! You cleared my questions on this very short video – but now I have another one: which cap and what value I should use if I’m building my own noise stoppers? I’ll be using this first on two Mackie mixers I have. Also, how should I do it with XLR inputs? Thanks!!!
This is an easy test, put a strong sine wave or something on line A. Turn on line B while shorted. If you detect anyting like the sine wave instead of nothing, then there’s a difference.
Here’s a test you can try – set your amp to normal listening volume and compare the noise level of an unconnected selected input when it is shorted vs when it is open. Note the difference. Now, if that same input is no longer selected, that difference will be scaled down by say >100dB, depending on how good the switch is. That’s the benefit you’re chasing, multiplied by the number of unused shorted inputs you have. Good luck!
Only shorting plugs made of unobtamium can be counted on to give you the lowest noise floor. I do agree unused phono inputs should be grounded because of the very high gain the circuitry has
Thanks, just bought some shorting plugs from this suggestion. While you say it doesnt make a difference for most, I think it will help on my vintage receivers that have a lot of noise and channel cross talk. Worth a shot at least!
Back in the day, the rotary input selector switch often had a “grounding” wafer that effectively shorted to ground all inputs that were not selected. This helped reduce crosstalk. For example, you have a tuner plugged in and a turntable, signal from the tuner can bleed into the phono input and can be audible in the background. I’m guessing PS Audio’s relays have a similar arrangement that shorts unused inputs to ground, I’d be surprised if they didn’t.
Shorting plugs, $1,000 power cables, $50 receptacles and I’m now in audiophile heaven….. even before I spend my kid’s college savings on speaker cables.
And your retirement fund on interconnects ! Don’t forget the all important inter connects.
All of my cables and shorting caps are fabricated from pure 9-9′s “No-needium” core material. The sound is utterly fantastic!!! Much better than my previous cable & cap setup with 8-9′s “No-needium” core material. Just remember if you spend far to much money on your system, you will eventually be forced to convince yourself that you have achieved the “Absolute Sound”. Peace.
It seems to me that better than a shorting plug one should use a terminating plug with a resistor between contacts. If the resistance is chosen correctly it could serve well as a shorting plug without being damaging or overheating if accidentally put on an output. 100K?…perhaps less like 1K
My wife says my amp sounds 100% better with the outputs shorted.
Audiophiles suffering from the covid quarantine are getting worse and worse mentally
Today in the digital domain most of this audiophile fix up business seems to be bunk! Why cover up anything that is unused. If it is not to be used, best to leave it alone. I very much like Paul’s reasoning. I have been listening to many of his lecturers, very logical, and practical.
I have made my own shorting plugs.
For most equipment they are of little to no value.
Unused phono inputs are the best place to install them.
In the 1970s many amps came equipped with one magnetic phono input and one NAB tape head input. If either of these are unused, shorting plugs was used. This was to prevent noise from being heard when the selector switch was moved past these inputs. It is unnecessary on the high level inputs that are not used.
I used both just-a-metal-cap and shorted metal caps (paying more). My main purpose of using caps is to cover the inputs and some output (plastic caps). This is to avoid the unwanted “by product of oxidative coating” at the surface. Difficult to clean up after a year or two. So I ended up with clean surface of inputs ready for use, and with the feeling of good sounds with clean connections.
A question: any one has seen the oxidative coating at the +ve point (so small hole, not easy to see) if not caped?
On an expensive product there may be extra good rca plugs. everything gets dusty so you should use dust cover for rcs plugs? If you make something and use expensive RCA plugs then you should use dust protection. You should not use cheap cables with cheap rca plugs that can scratch the expensive rca plugs that are in a product!
I got so tired of the biased noise of my Rhodium plugs, the Seebeck effect drove me crazy. So, now I have my ears plugged while waiting for my Unicorinum plated plugs.
Second time I have disagreed with Paul. If you believe in cable materials or materials in general affecting sound then you have to conclude shorting pin material can do so as well albeit in a very minor fashion. If you don’t then at least you’re consistent.
Paul did say there is a measurable difference of noise levels when measuring the inputs with a meter. The measured data indicated and can be translated to noise reduction (dB) when using shorted caps. And he has explained that, for the sake of “laziness”, he didn’t use shorted caps, and feels that you should (use) if you wanted to for the benefits of lower “floor” noise.
The material can make a difference when you have a signal, with a bunch of different frequencies that can react differently to less than ideal connectivity. When you are shorting out the input any noise is very weak and relatively uncomplicated, and the signal to noise ratio is way higher than anything else in the system. I.e. the plug’s ability to short out the signal is so high compared to the plug’s inability to short out the signal, that it puts it way below any noise floor that you may ever hope to have, and that is even before considering that the noise has to be strong enough to actually affect something that it’s not even connected to.
I got some caps that cover the RCA jacks, but no shorting pin sticks down the hole. I can’t tell any difference in sound quality, but I guess it keeps the dust out.
No offence, but actually, I thought Rhodium Shorting Plugs for optimum sound quality would be EXACTLY the kind of thing PS Audio would recommend and sell for silly prices!
If adding a shorting plug makes a difference then I’d say the equipment isn’t designed properly.
From the snake oil files: If you really, really believe that some insignificant tweak will “improve” your sound, it probably will even if proven otherwise.
Tomi Engdahl says:
AUDIOPHILE CABLE TRUTHS: Its ALL about YOUR Room!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpYfm1uvIbA
The most important component in any high end system is the listening room.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DIYLoudspeakerProjecPad/permalink/1607127526309745/
So how many hours of listening/playing before drivers are considered “broken in”???
So there’s a couple of things that are usually meant by the term break-in and it’s a more complicated answer than you might initially expect.
There’s the break-in of the suspension components of a brand new driver right out of the box.
There’s the long-term fatigue of the suspension components as the driver is put through its paces.
There’s the break-in commonly written about by equipment reviewers, some manufacturers and audiophiles.
Lets’ take them one at a time.
For the initial break-in, this is a function of some material properties in the soft parts of the motor structure. The binding agents and adhesives in the surround and spider…etc. This material breaks in quite quickly. For instance, some loudspeaker driver reviewers perform a break-in procedure by flexing the cone back and forth with their fingers taking the driver to the extremes of excursion, in and out a few times and then measure T/S parameters spot on with the manufacturer. Others specify driving the loudspeaker unit with a continuous tone, for instance SB drives it near mechanical excursion at just under FS for 10 minutes. In any case this time is quite short. A few minutes…with diminishing returns after that. There’s no need to have them flopping about for hours on end, the work is done quite quickly.
The long-term fatigue of the suspension components is a different story. Instead of me writing it up…I would suggest reading this work by Dr. Klippel of the loudspeaker measurement system fame. It’s a fantastic piece that I highly recommend.
https://www.klippel.de/fileadmin/klippel/Bilder/Know-How/Literature/Papers/Aging%20of%20loudspeaker%20suspension_Klippel.pdf
The last one, well…were I a cynical person who understood the ability of the human brain/ear system to become accustomed to the sound it was hearing I would say that the break-in described by these individuals is something that they claim to get you to listen to the drivers for longer in the hopes that you’ll get used to them. I am such a person, and that’s exactly what I think is happening.
If the sound actually changes as drastically as they describe, to me that indicates a system with low levels of long term stability…and it won’t last. I have tried some of these full range drivers that supposedly require long break-in periods, and low and behold there were no real changes in the drivers over time. To me it is marketing balderdash that is a way to convince you to spend time with something that just needs to work better at the outset, in the hopes you’ll settle for poor performance after getting used to it.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Furutech DPS 4.1 power cord build with spades (EU)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6EDJil-GMTw
Our master cable builder shows you how to make your Furutech DPS-4.1 power cord using Furutech top-of-the-line FI-50 NCF IEC connector and FI-E50 NCF schuko connector – terminated with FP-209 spades.
Furutech’s α (Alpha) OCC‐DUCC is one of a select few of conductors that Furutech engineers have found to excel in sound reproduction. α (Alpha) OCC –DUCC is constructed using a combination of DUCC Ultra Crystallized High Purity Copper and Furutech’s world famous Pure Transmission α (Alpha)-OCC.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Audiophile grounding box
https://youtu.be/NOVfFLTXB3k
Tomi Engdahl says:
Busting the myth of magical op-amps and diodes…?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH2uj9bWfM4
Everyone knows the the mystical 4558 op-amp IC chip is responsible for the best overdrive tones right? I mean, even Stevie Ray insisted on it in his pedals, am I right? Right?! Joking aside, I dive through several popular op-amp IC chips and show you what each one sounds like in the context of Guitar Overdrive Pedal Circuitry. Well, not every one out there, but some popular ones… from $.20 IC chips to $10 versions of the popular Operational Amplifier Integrated Circuit chip. And just for kicks and giggles, I’ll show you the difference between several types of diodes, and the difference when running it as a soft clipping overdrive to a hard clipping distortion. Sounds like fun, eh? Oh, and I realize the title is a little click-baity. But it’s all in fun, am I right?
Tomi Engdahl says:
Do Audio Cables Matter? YES, But Not for the Reason You Might Expect! – High-End Audio Myths
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxAv2r8FLZk
In this video, I want to talk about audio cables. Speaker cables, RCA Cables…excuse me, I mean interconnects ;-).
Viewer comments:
For speaker cables, low resistance is the priority and gauge (diameter) matters if the length exceeds ten feet (about three meters), for line-level unbalanced signal cables (e.g. “RCA”) the priorities are shielding effectiveness and shunt capacitance (the lower the better), so thicker is not necessarily better electrically. It should be mentioned that at the usual home stereo speaker cable lengths of under ten feet, the wire gauge is almost irrelevant — anything 22 AWG or thicker is going to sound pretty much exactly the same unless human psychology in the form of confirmation bias is involved, e.g. “I paid so much for this cable that I’m not going to admit there’s no improvement — even to myself.” As for banana plugs, if they’re not of good quality they can actually be worse than stripped wire ends on (well-tightened!) binding posts or even those dreaded spring terminals you find on low-end speakers — IOW, don’t bother with them unless you’re prepared to go for the good stuff, because their shape can give them a pretty narrow, unreliable contact area if they’re not made to the correct dimensions with the right kind of properly plated spring steel. Remember, a stripped (and preferably “tinned” with solder) wire end has only one potential failure point, while any kind of plug has at least two — one where the plug contacts the socket, and one where the conductor is attached to the plug!
Tomi Engdahl says:
The commonly stated range of human hearing is 20 to 20,000 Hz. Under ideal laboratory conditions, humans can hear sound as low as 12 Hz and as high as 28 kHz
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearing_range
Tomi Engdahl says:
Are Expensive XLR Cables Worth It? (FAQ Series)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0TlrpVCRgw
What’s the difference between an $8 and $50 XLR cable? Do $50 mic cables make your recording sound better? Why pay so much for a cable? In this video, I address those questions and demonstrate the difference in shielding and test if there is any difference in tone based on the XLR cable you’re using.
HQ Audio Of Review: https://podcastage.com/rev/xlrcable
00:00 – Introduction
00:15 – An Answer To The Question
01:06 – Build Quality
02:41 – Shielding Performance Measurement
06:05 – Noise Floor Measurement
07:50 – Do Cables Affect the Tone of Recording?
10:05 – Warranty of Cables
10:42 – Why Are Cables More Expensive?
11:05 – Who Should Buy Expensive Cables?
13:30 – Outro
NOTE 1: The frequency response measurements only cover 20Hz – 20kHz which is all most podcast producers and at home studio producers will encounter. The results may differ if you record high resolution with the intention of slowing down the audio. For most people 20Hz – 20kHz is more than sufficient.
NOTE 2: For non-reviews I typically record unprocessed audio and process in post. Here I mistakenly recorded the processed audio for my spoken word portions, and that processing was not good, so this is not a good representation of the sound of this mic. Sorry about that.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Digital audio coax is specified to be 75 ohms. USB 3.0 specification defines a 90-ohm nominal characteristic impedance. For digital signals right impedance copper cable is always better than wrong impedance cable built with exotic materials and/or construction.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Read here:
In USB, signals are transmitted using differential signaling. … The USB 2.0 specification defines a differential characteristic impedance of 90 ohms, plus or minus 15%, for the USB 2.0 differential pair. The USB 3.0 specification defines a differential characteristic impedance range of 72 ohms to 120 ohms.
For Digital Audio (as video transport) the RCA connector must be certified for 75 Ohms and must be crimped (not soldered)
The best RCA connector is the CANARE RCAP-XX, the connector should match with the video cable.
https://www.canare.co.jp/en/products/connectors/index.php?tid=2_015
Tomi Engdahl says:
“quality of data from a CD transport or streamer across S/PDIF toslink vs coax vs AES/EBU vs USB interfaces. For instance: are all the numbers being sent accurately,”
Every one of those interfaces can send the signal data accurately without changes.
“at what level of jitter, etc.”
S/PDIF toslink vs coax vs AES/EBU are pretty much the same in level of jitter. Some sources claim that toslink could have very slightly worse jitter performance compared to coax.
USB audio is actually a collection of several different ways how the audio data can be transported over USB. Different methods and USB settings can affect jitter more or less.
Tomi Engdahl says:
I know of very few “serious” evaluations. I am not even sure that we have correlation between numbers and audible artifacts. We have this problem with tonearms, cartridges and record players too. Everything from audiophoolery to voodoo, to radio frequency specifications. The audio press has assigned “analog” type audibility to digital signals and to be honest, it was a reason for me to cancel subscriptions.
Good playback, recordings with individual voices plausibly recorded, large ensemble recordings that I am familiar with and an oscilloscope are all that I use. I have no urge to converse with the esoteric, angry electrician or deaf engineer. I scan articles for their level of seriousness, then read them.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Class A Amplifiers, Virtually
https://hackaday.com/2022/03/09/class-a-amplifiers-virtually/
If you didn’t know better, you might think the phrase “class A amplifier” was a marketing term to help sell amplifiers. But it is, of course, actually a technical description of an amplifier that doesn’t distort the input waveform because it doesn’t depend on multiple elements to handle different areas of the input waveform. Want to know more? [FesZ] has a new video covering the basics of class A amplifiers including some great simulations. You can see the video below.
A class A amplifier uses a transistor that is always biased on. It never saturates or switches off. This is good for linearity, but not always the best for efficiency so there are other classes of amplifiers, too. However, for many applications, class A is the most common configuration.
There are a number of trade-offs involved with each type of amplifier and [FesZ] covers them in detail. But the real interesting part is the simulations in Spice. Sure, you can build the circuits and look at everything with a meter or scope, but using Spice is much handier.
The Class A amplifier – basics and simulation (1/2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtFnkXar5JU
Tomi Engdahl says:
How does an Amplifier Work? (Class-A)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKTbrZMscpM
This is video on working of a Class A Amplifier and some of its variations.
The input signal is first filtered to remove any DC in it, then it is biased such that the signal stays in the active region of the transistor so that the current through the base is amplified at the collector, with amplification depending upon the gain of transistor and the resistors, at last the voltage at the collector is passed through the capacitor to remove the DC and provide the amplified input signal at the output.
chapters
00:00 – Intro
00:15 – Designing the basic amplifier with working
03:40 – Different types of class A amplifiers
05:20 – Outro
Tomi Engdahl says:
The Class A amplifier – basics and simulation (1/2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtFnkXar5JU
The Class A amplifier – build and test (2/2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdd18pYyFg0