What annoys me today in marketing and media that too often today then talking on hi-fi, science is replaced by bizarre belief structures and marketing fluff, leading to a decades-long stagnation of the audiophile domain. Science makes progress, pseudo-science doesn’t. Hi-fi world is filled by pseudoscience, dogma and fruitloopery to the extent that it resembles a fundamentalist religion. Loudspeaker performance hasn’t tangibly improved in forty years and vast sums are spent addressing the wrong problems.
Business for Engineers: Marketers Lie article points tout that marketing tells lies — falsehoods — things that serve to convey a false impression. Marketing’s purpose is to determining how the product will be branded, positioned, and sold. It seems that there too many snake oil rubbish products marketed in the name of hifi. It is irritating to watch the stupid people in the world be fooled.
In EEVblog #29 – Audiophile Audiophoolery video David L. Jones (from EEVBlog) cuts loose on the Golden Ear Audiophiles and all their Audiophoolery snake oil rubbish. The information presented in Dave’s unique non-scripted overly enthusiastic style! He’s an enthusiastic chap, but couldn’t agree more with many of the opinions he expressed: Directional cables, thousand dollar IEC power cables, and all that rubbish. Monster Cable gets mostered. Note what he says right at the end: “If you pay ridiculous money for these cable you will hear a difference, but don’t expect your friends to”. If you want to believe, you will.
My points on hifi-nonsense:
One of the tenets of audiophile systems is that they are assembled from components, allegedly so that the user can “choose” the best combination. This is pretty largely a myth. The main advantage of component systems is that the dealer can sell ridiculously expensive cables, hand-knitted by Peruvian virgins and soaked in snake oil, to connect it all up. Say goodbye to the noughties: Yesterday’s hi-fi biz is BUSTED, bro article asks are the days of floorstanders and separates numbered? If traditional two-channel audio does have a future, then it could be as the preserve of high resolution audio. Sony has taken the industry lead in High-Res Audio.
HIFI Cable Humbug and Snake oil etc. blog posting rightly points out that there is too much emphasis placed on spending huge sums of money on HIFI cables. Most of what is written about this subject is complete tripe. HIFI magazines promote myths about the benefits of all sorts of equipment. I am as amazed as the writer that that so called audiophiles and HIFI journalists can be fooled into thinking that very expensive speaker cables etc. improve performance. I generally agree – most of this expensive interconnect cable stuff is just plain overpriced.
I can agree that in analogue interconnect cables there are few cases where better cables can really result in cleaner sound, but usually getting any noticeable difference needs that the one you compare with was very bad yo start with (clearly too thin speaker wires with resistance, interconnect that picks interference etc..) or the equipment in the systems are so that they are overly-sensitive to cable characteristics (generally bad equipment designs can make for example cable capacitance affect 100 times or more than it should). Definitely too much snake oil. Good solid engineering is all that is required (like keep LCR low, Teflon or other good insulation, shielding if required, proper gauge for application and the distance traveled). Geometry is a factor but not in the same sense these yahoos preach and deceive.
In digital interconnect cables story is different than on those analogue interconnect cables. Generally in digital interconnect cables the communication either works, does not work or sometimes work unreliably. The digital cable either gets the bits to the other end or not, it does not magically alter the sound that goes through the cable. You need to have active electronics like digital signal processor to change the tone of the audio signal traveling on the digital cable, cable will just not do that.
But this digital interconnect cables characteristics has not stopped hifi marketers to make very expensive cable products that are marketed with unbelievable claims. Ethernet has come to audio world, so there are hifi Ethernet cables. How about 500 dollar Ethernet cable? That’s ridiculous. And it’s only 1.5 meters. Then how about $10,000 audiophile ethernet cable? Bias your dielectrics with the Dielectric-Bias ethernet cable from AudioQuest: “When insulation is unbiased, it slows down parts of the signal differently, a big problem for very time-sensitive multi-octave audio.” I see this as complete marketing crap speak. It seems that they’re made for gullible idiots. No professional would EVER waste money on those cables. Audioquest even produces iPhone sync cables in similar price ranges.
HIFI Cable insulators/supports (expensive blocks that keep cables few centimeters off the floor) are a product category I don’t get. They typically claim to offer incredible performance as well as appealing appearance. Conventional cable isolation theory holds that optimal cable performance can be achieved by elevating cables from the floor in an attempt to control vibrations and manage static fields. Typical cable elevators are made from electrically insulating materials such as wood, glass, plastic or ceramics. Most of these products claim superior performance based upon the materials or methods of elevation. I don’t get those claims.
Along with green magic markers on CDs and audio bricks is another item called the wire conditioner. The claim is that unused wires do not sound the same as wires that have been used for a period of time. I don’t get this product category. And I don’t believe claims in the line like “Natural Quartz crystals along with proprietary materials cause a molecular restructuring of the media, which reduces stress, and significantly improves its mechanical, acoustic, electric, and optical characteristics.” All sounds like just pure marketing with no real benefits.
CD no evil, hear no evil. But the key thing about the CD was that it represented an obvious leap from earlier recording media that simply weren’t good enough for delivery of post-produced material to the consumer to one that was. Once you have made that leap, there is no requirement to go further. The 16 bits of CD were effectively extended to 18 bits by the development of noise shaping, which allows over 100dB signal to noise ratio. That falls a bit short of the 140dB maximum range of human hearing, but that has never been a real goal. If you improve the digital media, the sound quality limiting problem became the transducers; the headphones and the speakers.
We need to talk about SPEAKERS: Soz, ‘audiophiles’, only IT will break the sound barrier article says that today’s loudspeakers are nowhere near as good as they could be, due in no small measure to the presence of “traditional” audiophile products. that today’s loudspeakers are nowhere near as good as they could be, due in no small measure to the presence of “traditional” audiophile products. I can agree with this. Loudspeaker performance hasn’t tangibly improved in forty years and vast sums are spent addressing the wrong problems.
We need to talk about SPEAKERS: Soz, ‘audiophiles’, only IT will break the sound barrier article makes good points on design, DSPs and the debunking of traditional hi-fi. Science makes progress, pseudo-science doesn’t. Legacy loudspeakers are omni-directional at low frequencies, but as frequency rises, the radiation becomes more directional until at the highest frequencies the sound only emerges directly forwards. Thus to enjoy the full frequency range, the listener has to sit in the so-called sweet spot. As a result legacy loudspeakers with sweet spots need extensive room treatment to soak up the deficient off-axis sound. New tools that can change speaker system designs in the future are omni-directional speakers and DSP-based room correction. It’s a scenario ripe for “disruption”.
Computers have become an integrated part of many audio setups. Back in the day integrated audio solutions in PCs had trouble earning respect. Ode To Sound Blaster: Are Discrete Audio Cards Still Worth the Investment? posting tells that it’s been 25 years since the first Sound Blaster card was introduced (a pretty remarkable feat considering the diminished reliance on discrete audio in PCs) and many enthusiasts still consider a sound card an essential piece to the PC building puzzle. It seems that in general onboard sound is finally “Good Enough”, and has been “Good Enough” for a long time now. For most users it is hard to justify the high price of special sound card on PC anymore. There are still some PCs with bad sound hardware on motherboard and buttload of cheap USB adapters with very poor performance. However, what if you want the best sound possible, the lowest noise possible, and don’t really game or use the various audio enhancements? You just want a plain-vanilla sound card, but with the highest quality audio (products typically made for music makers). You can find some really good USB solutions that will blow on-board audio out of the water for about $100 or so.
Although solid-state technology overwhelmingly dominates today’s world of electronics, vacuum tubes are holding out in two small but vibrant areas. Some people like the sound of tubes. The Cool Sound of Tubes article says that a commercially viable number of people find that they prefer the sound produced by tubed equipment in three areas: musical-instrument (MI) amplifiers (mainly guitar amps), some processing devices used in recording studios, and a small but growing percentage of high-fidelity equipment at the high end of the audiophile market. Keep those filaments lit, Design your own Vacuum Tube Audio Equipment article claims that vacuum tubes do sound better than transistors (before you hate in the comments check out this scholarly article on the topic). The difficulty is cost; tube gear is very expensive because it uses lots of copper, iron, often point-to-point wired by hand, and requires a heavy metal chassis to support all of these parts. With this high cost and relative simplicity of circuitry (compared to modern electronics) comes good justification for building your own gear. Maybe this is one of the last frontiers of do-it-yourself that is actually worth doing.
1,557 Comments
Tomi Engdahl says:
This Just Saved me $100,000 – Totalphase Cable Tester
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6lx1ntNoxE
CHAPTERS
—————————————————
0:00 Intro
1:05 Linus picks a fight
1:40 Unboxing
2:32 Internals
4:24 So many cables
5:23 Initial tests
7:20 Professor Riley lesson!
9:22 Time for some testing
10:51 Conclusion
Tomi Engdahl says:
bruh when mainstream media has to tell people, it’s gotten bad.
Or they’ve rain out of things to say.
Today in a Belgian tabloid: don’t invest to much money in cables because it’s not worth it! (article in Dutch)
https://www.hln.be/tech/is-een-dure-kabel-echt-beter-dan-een-goedkope-elektronica-expert-legt-uit-hoe-je-de-beste-keuze-maakt~a6db115f/
Tomi Engdahl says:
Also, note that almost all hifi reviews are positive. This is because reviewers typically return products without review when they dislike it. They do this to maintain relationships with manufacturers and to give them another chance with new products in the future.
https://hackaday.com/2023/03/28/its-difficult-to-read-an-audiophile-guide-as-an-analogue-engineer/
Tomi Engdahl says:
Grounding box snake oil
https://www.entreq.com/products/ground-boxes-17667704
https://www.audiotherapyuk.com/product/entreq-olympus-hero-ground-box/
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/ferromagnetic-materials-in-audio-connectors.41867/
As far as my experience goes, negligible conductor resistance is the most influential factor on an audio connector’s signal transmission quality, followed by a tight mechanical connection and a coating that is resistant to oxidation over time.
But I recently read this interesting IEEE research paper that challenged my experience. It calls attention to the magnetic qualities of connectors, which introduce passive intermodulation, aka 3rd-order harmonics distortion to the signal! The paper focuses on RF connectors, but details principles that can be applied to audio connectors as well. Here are some key points from the paper:
Passive intermodulation (PIM) in coaxial connectors results from ferromagnetic material in the coatings and in the elemental iron in the base brass of conductors.
PIM increases as the signal frequency goes down, due to a decrease in skin effect.
PIM in connectors with nickel layers is much higher than in connectors without nickel layers.
PIM in connectors with nickel layers can be effectively reduced to desired levels using thicker surface coatings and/or higher conductivity coatings, from non-magnetic materials (gold, silver, copper, ternary alloys).
For connectors without nickel layers, the iron content in the base brass should be reduced especially when the connector is used in low-frequency applications.
Testing a bunch of different TRS connectors from well-known manufacturers (Switchcraft, Neutrik, Rean, Hicon, D’Addario/Planet Waves), I was astounded by the substantial and evident differences between them: some connectors were strongly magnetic, some weak, and some none at all. In some connectors, only the ground conductor was magnetic. In others, the pin of the male TRS connector (the part that plugs into the jack) was not magnetic at all, while the conductors you solder the cable to were strongly magnetic.
Very interested to hear from electrical engineers about the meaning of this.
For audio, in some edge cases, one can measure distortion resulting from ferromagnetic materials. To put it in perspective, it can get as high as 1000 times lower than audible distortion thresholds. IOW, totally irrelevant for actual component use even in the worst cases.
I do love seeing people fretting about the ferromagnetic leads on resistors used in their tube amps. I have made enemies by holding magnets near the tubes, not to mention the transformers…
as you can see this is more a technical/reputational problem but not a sound quality problem as it is still by orders of magnitude bellow audibility.
There can be an effect on S.Q. when using steel in connectors, but I think the effect would be microscopic when listening to music. I suspect that once you get to 0.01% in distortion, going lower will likely not be audible. I do laud the engineering that makes such low figures possible, though. It just that there’s no reason to order a drop forge when all you need is a tack hammer.
Tomi Engdahl says:
If this video was shot to the backdrop of audio instead of industrial control systems equipment and had a bit of fictional audio jargon thrown in, it could be used to sell basic hifi gear inflated to audiophile prices. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aW2LvQUcwqc
Spoiler: None of the engineering words in this video are actually real, but neither are most of the words in audiophile adverts.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://hackaday.com/2023/05/07/op-amp-challenge-compare-op-amps-by-listening-to-them/
Tomi Engdahl says:
How Real Do the Drums Sound?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tn69y1f74yc
In this YouTube video, Dave Rat talks about a method of achieving realism in reproduced sound rather than just fidelity. He discusses the flaws inherent in conventional sound systems and recommends placing the sound source directly in the listener’s acoustic environment for a more realistic experience. He then goes on to demonstrate the difference between different speakers and encourages users to acquire the tools that will achieve their desired outcome. Ultimately, he describes a method to create a sound that is realistic and not just a reproduction.
Tomi Engdahl says:
All the audiophiles were swearing they could hear the “analog” difference
Sorry, but $25 million doesn’t begin to rebuild the egos of all those “audiophiles” who had to admit they couldn’t tell the difference between digital and analog.
Audiophiles now caught not being able to tell the difference, gatekeeping other audiophiles lmaoooo
The settlement comes after the company was found to use digital methods in making its products:
MoFi to Pay $25 Million Over Fraudulent ‘All-Analog’ Records
Read More: MoFi to Pay $25 Million Over Fraudulent ‘All-Analog’ Records | https://ultimateclassicrock.com/mofi-records-settlement/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral
https://ultimateclassicrock.com/mofi-records-settlement/
Tomi Engdahl says:
In their class action lawsuit, plaintiffs argued that MoFi’s hidden actions significantly lowered the value of their records.
“Original recording tapes age, so only a limited number of analog recordings can be produced,” the complaint explained. “When defendant began using a digital mastering process in its records as opposed to purely analog, it inherently produced less valuable records – because the records were no longer of limited quantity and were not as close to the studio recording – yet still charged the higher price.”
Read More: MoFi to Pay $25 Million Over Fraudulent ‘All-Analog’ Records | https://ultimateclassicrock.com/mofi-records-settlement/?utm_source=tsmclip&utm_medium=referral
Tomi Engdahl says:
While it is damn near impossible to explain technically why a certain “audiophile solutions” are exaggerations at best and outright lies at worst.
That “audiophile” stuff is virtually never used in even the highest end recording studios or live situations, with way bigger budgets than most home enthusiasts.
If a thousand dollar cable sounded better than a fifty dollar cable, you can be sure that no expense would be spared in recording Big Name acts by Big Name producers and engineers.
The demographic of the pro-audio world skews towards those who couldn’t be easily fooled by magical and false claims. Not all, but I suspect that it would be a hard market for snake oil to penetrate so pervasively.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/497838033628570/permalink/6395906150488366/
Tomi Engdahl says:
Yeah, RIP to all the noise and crackling we lost
Also I think this quote is very telling: “It’s a lovely little ritual I never get tired of”. This is a big part of the appeal of vinyl to this kind of people, not necessarily just the supposed accuracy of sound.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Often the issue could be the mastering, not the format
Tomi Engdahl says:
CMOS Homemade Operational Amplifier
https://hackaday.io/project/191138-cmos-homemade-operational-amplifier
CMOS Homemade Operational Amplifier module and a photo detector using it.
Operational amplifiers using the CMOS process are now widely used because of their low power consumption. Since the insulated gate of MOSFETs in the CMOS op-amps serves as the signal input, their input resistance is extremely large compared to operational amplifiers using bipolar transistors, and their bias current is extremely low. This time, I will explain how I boldly simplified its internal structure and built my own CMOS op-amp module using discrete MOSFETs to deepen my own understanding of its internal operating behavior and applications. I will also present an example of a self-made evaluation unit that allows experimentation with a non-inverting amplifier circuit, and a photo-detector circuit using a transimpedance amplifier.
Tomi Engdahl says:
FIRST HIFI Experience… NOT Impressed!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6r4axsOE9o
Courtney was NOT impressed with the HIFI headphones… But, I am DETERMINED to get her to LOVE IT!
Tomi Engdahl says:
Copied from another site, author unknown:
“The audiophile bug is a virus and will be with you forever making you want to change out gear and upgrade all of the time.”
Tomi Engdahl says:
Would you pay $1000 for a 1-metre cable?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnmLLI3GoDU
If an interconnect cable costs $1000 or more, does it make $1000 worth of difference to your audio?
Tomi Engdahl says:
From Facebook discussion
Carbon film resistors to me sound warmer and smoother than metal film, which in turn sound better than metal oxide … just as with capacitors (polyester, polypropylene, paper in oil, etc) in a superior design, different technologies will sound different!
Tomi Engdahl says:
The frequency response problem that affects ALL stereo recordings
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8bmASpUeh0
Two-speaker stereo kind of works. But it doesn’t totally work. You’re hearing your favourite artist all wrong.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Diffraction from baffle edges
https://www.linkwitzlab.com/diffraction.htm
Loudspeaker cabinet edge diffraction is a subject of never ending debate
Tomi Engdahl says:
What’s Wrong With Audio Volume Control?
https://tortugaaudio.com/whats-wrong-with-audio-volume-control/
Whether you own $10k+ of high end gear or a humble $200 receiver from Best Buy, chances are about 100% that every note of recorded music played through your system is funneled through a volume control device (a.k.a. an attenuator) before it reaches your ears.
In the analog signal world volume control means throttling back the voltage level of the audio signal prior to reaching your amplifier. That’s how volume is controlled; by reducing the signal voltage using a voltage divider.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/497838033628570/permalink/6436260549786259/
There’s a lot of mysticism found there among bedroom producers and garage musicians. They’re trying to learn; they just don’t have the tools, the basic foundational knowledge, to sort actual information from the marketing BS and like “schiit” that’s spewed out to trick them into buying.
These same kids will innocently go into believing cable differences, the magic of orange drop caps, the “superiority” of point-to-point soldering over PCBs, use NS-10Ms thinking them real mastering monitors, etc and grow either ever more frustrated that they can’t get the sound they’re after or ever more blinded and convinced that their foolery is the right path.
there’s quite a lot of mysticism in professional engineering too.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/497838033628570/permalink/6398694736876174/
A well treated room is magical, otherwise recording studios and higher end venues wouldn’t bother.
a recording studio is not for listening music. Otherwise, everyone would like to listen in anechoic room. Ideal listening room is with the right reverb matching the genre.
ST Chelvam I’ve been around true binaural recordings since the sixties, child, and all the ambiophonics, Soundfield, 3D, immersive etc etc labels over the decades. A binaural recording through headphones is extremely realistic *until you turn your head*, whereupon the room spins around you and some people even throw up, as with virtual reality headsets.
Tomi Engdahl says:
If you can’t hear this then you’re not an audiophile
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48PxwspDvrE
If you’re an audiophile then you can hear the tiniest defects in all kinds of recordings. But can you hear the problem in this recording?
Tomi Engdahl says:
Ostinatos used by Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmTkU69pDWE
Ostinatos are used extensively in Film/TV and Video Game music to help add excitement and energy to a piece. In this video I go through various Ostinatos used by two of Hollywood’s biggest composers – Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard, from films such as The Dark Knight, The Da Vinci Code and The Bourne Legacy. I take a look at how the Ostinatos are constructed and developed to bring excitement and motion to their scores.
Timestamps:
00:00 – Intro
00:19 – What is an Ostinato?
00:37 – The Dark Knight – ‘A Dark Knight’ – Hans Zimmer/James Newton Howard
02:26 – The Da Vinci Code – ‘Chevaliers De Sangreal’ – Hans Zimmer
05:01 – Interstellar – ‘No Time For Caution’ – Hans Zimmer
07:00 – The Dark Knight – ‘Trip to Hong Kong’ – Hans Zimmer/James Newton Howard
08:01 – The Bourne Legacy – ‘Flight 167′ – James Newton Howard
08:51 – Defiance – ‘Soundtrack Suite’ – James Newton Howard
09:40 – Salt – ‘I’m Going Home’ – James Newton Howard
10:56 – Outro
Build tension for your action cue: Metric modulation, time signature changes, ostinatos and more !
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dscd9Q79fwQ
Claudio Ragazzi, Grammy and Emmy-winning film composer and professor at the Screen Scoring Department of Berklee, is starring in this week’s episode of Virtual Orchestration – providing us with deep insights into how to score an action scene.
Claudio talks about form, building a temp rhythm track, and gives you some expert tools to hit the sync points of the scene, make tempo changes inaudible, and build rhythmical tension before orchestrating his simple piano sketch to a full Orchestral mockup.
Virtual Orchestration is a collaboration between Berklee College of Music (Boston, USA) and Orchestral Tools (Berlin, Germany).
Tomi Engdahl says:
What you REALLY need for great orchestral MIDI mockups: Alex’s ultimate BASIC GEAR GUIDE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwYrMBmBuCw
Tomi Engdahl says:
THE HISTORY OF SYNTHESIZERS
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUXf2spl1xQ
How the Fairlight CMI changed the course of music
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkiYy0i8FtA
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://hackaday.com/2023/06/06/know-audio-distortion-part-one/
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DIYAudio/permalink/6494777617254696/
Wirewound SQP (cement) resistors are well-known to everyone. They can be found everywhere in audio equipment, for example, in crossovers used in speakers ranging in price from $100 to $100,000. Externally, they all appear to be roughly the same. However, upon careful examination, it becomes apparent that they can vary significantly. Some of them exhibit substantial nonlinearity (several times higher than the nonlinearity of a good transistor amplifier), which is attributed to the physical properties of the wire alloy used to construct these resistors.
To test various resistors for linearity, I have assembled a setup according to the provided schematic, where the tested resistor is denoted as R_DUT.
As evident from the measurement results, certain SQP resistors introduce a significant amount of harmonics (distortion) into the test signal, and the spectrum of this distortion is dominated by odd harmonics, which are well-known to be the most unpleasant for the human ear.
Metal film resistors do not produce measurable distortion.
It can be observed that the amount of distortion produced by different SQP resistors also varies. Some SQP resistors generate minimal distortion. What is the reason for this?
I have discovered that high distortion is characteristic of resistors wound with wire made of an alloy containing a significant amount of magnetic material (most likely nickel). Conversely, resistors wound with non-magnetic or weakly magnetic wire do not introduce substantial distortion.
What type of wire is used in the crossover resistors of your new expensive speakers? You can verify this yourself using a powerful magnet.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Ilia Bird As usual in this hobby, the misapplication of a real term to justify bad marketing: Weting current applies to make/break contacts that either experience long periods of disuse or are used below their rated voltage. Typically wetting current is discussed with relay contacts or switches. In the case of audio connections, the physical contact of the interconnect is such that a passivated layer of oxide will not form for years. Also, the mechanical force of physical interconnects is generally enough to cause physical damage to the passivated layer. Relay contacts have a very minimal force and lateral motion compared to hard connections like banana plugs or RCA connects.
Tomi Engdahl says:
From
Laboratory connectors are actually very well made and I never had any (measurable) problems with them. Just don’t buy the cheapest crap without quality control and you’re good. I wouldn’t use uncoated copper, even if it implies a higher contact resistance (untreated/uncoated copper will corrode at some point). https://www.sks-kontakt.de/de/test-measurement/produkte/produkt?nr=9307261
The hollow banana is far superior in audio applications. It is optimized for sound rather than repeated plugging.
There really is nothing to be optimized and I’m tired of the myths and pretending there is. You either have a connection with low contact resistance (which is absolutely achieveable with the 2.50$ laboratory connector/ banana plug above) or you don’t. It’s that simple. A deviation of a few milliohms will go unnoticed especially in all things audio. Nothing personal.
It’s not about that. It is rather about closed loop, multi-contact, mass, etc. Read up, my friend and…listen.
Yusch Nairda Been listening for years, can tell the difference of room, speaker, amp, sound source quality – but not cables. There’s a threshold somewhere, crappy cable sounds bae but as soon as cables and connectors are good enough – i haven’t noticed anything. Been A/B’ing expensive speaker cables, expensive XLRs on pretty decent amp/speakers and never heard a significant difference confirmed by blind A/B. I “heard” the difference a few times, but it was just bias. Guy at store demo’ed cables – but it took him a few minutes to change them, so it wasn’t reliable and we both agreed good cable sounds better – i could confirm none of that with blind A/B, when someone was switching cables quick, within seconds (using a/b output switch on amp). We also use good cables for studio work and they just work, there’s so much that we can do to get better perceived audio quality – but not changing cables, unless they are damaged/crappy
True!
I use audiophile bananas in laboratory PSU at 5-15Amp currents, and its lost connection as soon as possible.
But if you carefully solder the end where the petals meet and then spread these petals a little to the sides, everything becomes normal for a while. The main reason is that they are positioned as cool because they are like gold. But they are aluminum with a rivet on the end and really don’t stick where you don’t expect.
Marek Obuchowicz This was not a cable discussion, though. And XLR is a completely different story, if truly symmetrical, due to the transformers used. The latter are naturally limiting and only make sense in studio applications where grounding is complex and audible humming is your foe.
XLR connections can use transformers or electrical balanced active electronics. The latter one is nowadays more common, because it is cheaper to make well and usually sounds more “clean”.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineerShitPost/permalink/3561902837377642/
Alright, I’m ready to get roasted but this is something I’ve never understood; waveforms are visual representations of the pressure waves that make up sound, right? So wtf are square/saw waves? Wouldn’t a speaker need to teleport to recreate them?
Yep, this subject is the very deep core of audiophile swordsmanship
Speaker a slow to catch up with the square wave = rolled off, mud
Speaker fast = crisp, clinical, sterile
A perfect balance in between = wow warmf
Applies to the entire chain including wires lifted off the ground and capacitors’ unicorn filling
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.headphonesty.com/2021/11/review-audeze-euclid/?fbclid=IwAR1iXdKAShglbmoMBBfCmam13l6yvtxiAUVHQ–c5-b0gr1BJsqrCiFnmPM
Tomi Engdahl says:
Any time that we destroy drivers, we have to ask if it is an accident – or if we are using it for the wrong thing. Protection MAY prevent something from burning, but at what cost? My experience is that if we are damaging drivers, we are either driving the speaker or amplifier into distortion. It must sound AWFUL being driven to that level. If we can’t hear the distortion, maybe we need to go see a doctor.
In any case, to play TOO LOUDLY, a compression driver/horn is the best choice.
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/DIYAudio/permalink/6529977263734731/
Avoid this type of banana plugs at all costs. Although it may appear monolithic at first glance, in fact this connector consists of two components (left photo 1,2) pressed into each other. Over time, the contact between them deteriorates, resulting in non-linear and unpredictable connections. Instead I recommend to use a sleeve-type connector made from a solid piece of copper (right photo), soldering the wire end into it.
Non-linear connection ?
Technobabble……
A non-linear electrical connection is a contact that has a certain threshold below which current does not flow through it. See “wetting current” for relays
As usual in this hobby, the misapplication of a real term to justify bad marketing: Weting current applies to make/break contacts that either experience long periods of disuse or are used below their rated voltage. Typically wetting current is discussed with relay contacts or switches. In the case of audio connections, the physical contact of the interconnect is such that a passivated layer of oxide will not form for years. Also, the mechanical force of physical interconnects is generally enough to cause physical damage to the passivated layer. Relay contacts have a very minimal force and lateral motion compared to hard connections like banana plugs or RCA connects.
Our mentality has changed by accepting the substandard connectors that China makes. A generation of obsolescent acceptance.
Spot on! Copper sleeves way better, I heard it!
I’ve used the expanding ones for decades along with quite a few others ….. if you think you can hear a sonic difference then you are completely deluded .
After 40 years of pro audio this is the only legitimate banana plug (or one like it).
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/BananaB–pro-co-banana-black-mdpb
Tomi Engdahl says:
Hifi crystals
https://youtu.be/_7VaGmVg6_A
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineerShitPost/permalink/3570179606549965/
And even then… is the achievable difference actually perceivable by the human ear?
My point still stands. Is the noise reduction of gold vs. copper actually noticeable by the ear?
In signal processing, everything unwanted in the signal is called “noise” (i.e.: quantization noise is not really noise in the physical way, but we call it a “noise” because it is the difference between the signal that we wanted and the signal that we got).
In that sense, noise rejection and fidelity refer to more or less the same thing.
I’ll take ‘doesn’t fall apart’ and ‘doesn’t pick up loads of noise on a long run’, ‘capacitance’, ‘crosstalk’ and ‘doesn’t make a noise when you move it’ as measurable standards that cables can be held to
It goes wrong when someone renames ‘cable’ to ‘interconnect’ and starts telling me about the ‘expanded soundstage’, ‘unlifting a veil on the music’ …etc
pro tip, its only gold plated, so it isnt really going to change shit other than corrosion properties.
Oxidation concerns acknowledged above but let’s be real the people buying gold plated HDMI cables aren’t thinking about oxidation
I mean it depends. Gold plated digital cables are very silly. But yes gold resists corrosion among other things and isn’t always a waste.
Gold resists corrosion especially when both connector sides are gold planted. If the jack in device is tin planted, using gold planted plug with it is asking for problems…
yeah and the gold tips I’m less concerned with, I’m more looking for top notch shielding, and for stuff that gets moved a lot just the overall robustness of the build.
My point still stands. Is the noise reduction of gold vs. copper actually noticeable by the ear?
In signal processing, everything unwanted in the signal is called “noise” (i.e.: quantization noise is not really noise in the physical way, but we call it a “noise” because it is the difference between the signal that we wanted and the signal that we got).
In that sense, noise rejection and fidelity refer to more or less the same thing.
I’ll take ‘doesn’t fall apart’ and ‘doesn’t pick up loads of noise on a long run’, ‘capacitance’, ‘crosstalk’ and ‘doesn’t make a noise when you move it’ as measurable standards that cables can be held to
It goes wrong when someone renames ‘cable’ to ‘interconnect’ and starts telling me about the ‘expanded soundstage’, ‘unlifting a veil on the music’ …etc
Tomi Engdahl says:
that gold planting is good when both connector sides are gold planted. Still not magic that sounds better than any other decent connector planting that makes good contact. Gold-gold does not oxidize in corrosive environment, so can keep connection well working longer good. If you you connect gold to other material connector, you pretty much loose the claimed gold benefits and result can be even worse than with other materials. For example mixing tin contacts with gold-plated contacts can compromise the connection altogether.
Tomi Engdahl says:
RIAA filters
https://www.learningelectronics.net/circuits/passive-riaa-preamplifier_14.html
https://www.kabusa.com/riaa.htm
http://www.mh-audio.nl/Calculators/CalculateRIAA.html
Tomi Engdahl says:
Scientists make loudspeakers that can absorb sound for pure silence
They use something called the active “plasmacoustic metalayer.”
https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/scientists-make-loudspeakers-can-absorb-sound-for-pure-silence
Tomi Engdahl says:
Gold Plated TOSLINK cable.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/AudioEngineerShitPost/permalink/3577229002511692/
“I was recently buying optical cables on Amazon and nearly all of them were gold plated. Unbelievable. I now own a gold plated one because it was cheapest but I feel like an idiot every time I look at it.”
Ok but is it oxygen-free?
no but the brains of those who buy it are
Tomi Engdahl says:
Snake oil fuse
Quantum Science Audio (QSA) Red-Black High-End UK Mains Fuse
£2,400.00
https://www.futureshop.co.uk/quantum-science-audio-red-black-high-end-uk-mains-fuse/
Tomi Engdahl says:
Directional AC fuse for UK audiophools.
The best part is it looks like a perfectly normal fuse they got from alibaba with a sticker and £2400 price tag on it.
“With more than 22 years of research into what they call ‘Bottle Neck Distortion’, QSA products can enhance your enjoyment of your system in a way that is remarkable for such a small component” said at https://www.futureshop.co.uk/quantum-science-audio-red-black-high-end-uk-mains-fuse/
Tomi Engdahl says:
If you can’t hear this then you’re not an audiophile
https://youtu.be/48PxwspDvrE
If you’re an audiophile then you can hear the tiniest defects in all kinds of recordings. But can you hear the problem in this recording?
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://snakeoilsound.com/
Tomi Engdahl says:
Although the Richard Allan version of the A21 made its debut in April 1968 it wasn’t long before it was replaced by a version with J. E. Sugden and Co on the front panel! The original Sugden A21 appeared before the end of 1968, and by mid-1969 around 500 had been sold.
https://www.audiomisc.co.uk/JES/A21/A21.html
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/avdisasters/permalink/6179595708835555/
“Warmth” is distortion, poor frequency response, and low dynamic range. I’m not saying it doesn’t sound good to some people, but it’s easy enough and even more convenient to add this in as an effect with digital playback, if one is inclined to mess up the signal in this way
How do you feel about the fact that Mutt Lange added “white noise” (distortion) to the BGV on Def Leppard’s Pyromania and Hysteria to make it sound more analog?
you’ve exactly made my point: you can get that warm analog sound by adding noise and distortion to a clean signal
Which is apparently pleasing to the human ear. Stop looking at the knobs and screens, stop looking at what your parameteic looks like, stop looking at where your console tells you where compression starts, and just simply listen. This is something that has been lost with today’s “audio engineers”.
you’re completely misunderstanding the point I’m making. You’re arguing against a point I’m not making.
If you prefer your music distorted and veiled in noise, that’s perfectly fine! But it’s important understand that intentional effects introduced as part of the artistic creation process are completely different from distortion of what’s on the recording during playback
Tomi Engdahl says:
Much pseudo-scientific nonsense is written about cables and much of it has been debunked in Allen Wright’s excellent SuperCables CookBook (see http://www.vacuumstate.com). What if we could apply down to earth engineering combined with good knowledge of materials, reducing microphony along with non-linear storage effects (low capacitance and inductance) and also apply what constitutes good cable geometry. These are not great secrets, but simply a matter of good execution, just as much as design of amplifiers and speakers.
https://www.customanalogue.com/jlti_ic.htm?fbclid=IwAR1pOmYr64PwkNS-Zl6yfzUU1hyy3YUflJn10kvOYIOw6jpjzZrtYouQoa8
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/497838033628570/permalink/6613152848763694/
It’s not as simple as that.
Everything makes a difference; to a point.
Speaker wire makes a difference…. to a point. As a simple example, two wires running in parallel creates capacitance. So you’re creating a low pass filter. But the question is, what are you effecting, audible frequencies? Or are you only effecting things way outside the audible range, if so, who cares.
It’s the same with everything, each part will make a difference, but if it effects to and your can’t hear it, it’s a total waste of money.
The thing is, at the electrical level at least, audio is child’s play. Computers are able to move signals around at GHz with perfect precision. Signals at khz isn’t hard. Why is gear so expensive?
In a previous life, I worked as a sound engineer. What was absolutely obvious in the difference between professional audio and audiophiles was the environment. In a studio, there was orders of magnitude more spent on the environment than the gear. Most audiophiles seem to spend so much on gear and next to nothing on the environment.
Sure, it makes sense, who’s going to build a whole room with a whole concrete slab damped from the ground, non-parallel walls, etc just for home. But if you’re not going to do that, you’re never going to get great audio, so just make your gear good enough to do the job.
One thing I can say for audiophiles, at least they aren’t car audio people. Spending mega bucks on a sound system in a rattling tin box.