Coding curmudgeon Linus Torvalds has gone off on yet another rant: this time against his own lawyers and free software activist Bradley Kuhn.
On a mailing list about an upcoming Linux conference, a discussion about whether to include a session on the GPL that protects the open source operating system quickly devolved in an angry rant as its founder piled in.
“I actually think we *should* talk about GPL enforcement at the kernel summit, because I think it’s an important issue,” Torvalds gently began, “but we should talk about it the way we talk about other issues: among kernel developers. No lawyers present unless they are in the capacity of a developer and maintainer of actual code, and in particular, absolutely not the Software Freedom Conservancy.”
“I personally think this arguing for lawyering has become a nasty festering disease, and the SFC and Bradley Kuhn has been the Typhoid Mary spreading the disease.”
“Let’s just cut through all the bullshit,” Torvalds continued. “The fact is, the people who have created open source and made it a success have been the developers doing work … The people who have *destroyed* projects have been lawyers that claimed to be out to ‘save’ those projects.”
“Some people do think I’m a grumpy old man,” he told university students in 2012. “I realize if you only see my flames and curses, and not when things go well, you will think I hate everybody.” He seemed to recognize he may have a personality flaw that he may need to work on, noting: “I’d like to be a nice person and curse less and encourage people to grow rather than telling them they are idiots.”
Before adding: “I’m sorry – I tried, it’s just not in me.”
In fact, let me say that I actually think we *should* talk about GPL
enforcement at the kernel summit, because I think it’s an important
issue, but we should talk about it the way we talk about other issues:
among kernel developers. No lawyers present unless they are in the
capacity of a developer and maintainer of actual code, and in
particular, absolutely not the Software Freedom Conservancy.
I’m not aware of anybody but the lawyers and crazy people that were
happy about how the BusyBox situation ended up.
So I think the whole GPL enforcement issue is absolutely something
that should be discussed, but it should be discussed with the working
title
“Lawyers: poisonous to openness, poisonous to community, poisonous to
projects”.
In an on-stage interview with Linux Foundation founder and executive director Jim Zemline at the Open Source summit in Los Angeles on Monday, Torvalds admitted that “I have long since gotten over the fact that the UPS guy brings me a package from Amazon at 3:00PM and I am still in my bathrobe.”
Torvalds later invited hackers to adopt his lifestyle in two ways, first explaining that while coding a kernel in his bathrobe is far from glamorous he derives immense satisfaction from the many uses to which Linux is put. That makes his job fun, an outcome he feels is more likely to be attainable when working in technology than in other fields.
He therefore encouraged anyone looking for a career to pursue technology, but said he wants to make a special effort to recruit those who work on the dark side of tech.
Asked about the state of Linux security, he said the kernel development team does its very best and finds fuzzing tools are improving its potency. “We will always have bugs where we overlooked some detail and a smart person comes in and says ‘Hey, that is a bug I can take advantage of’.”
Even if the kernel team gets better at security, he said “absolute” security is impossible because someone will build a project on the kernel that introduces a vulnerability.
Hence his interest in recruiting more hackers.
“I am always very impressed by people who are attacking our code,” he said. “Sometimes I get the feeling these smart people are doing bad things, but I wish they were on our side because they are so smart and they could help us.”
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9 Comments
Tomi Engdahl says:
Having offended everyone else in the world, Linus Torvalds calls own lawyers a ‘nasty festering disease’
Time for a compendium of abuse
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/26/linus_torvalds_calls_own_lawyers_nasty_festering_disease/
Coding curmudgeon Linus Torvalds has gone off on yet another rant: this time against his own lawyers and free software activist Bradley Kuhn.
On a mailing list about an upcoming Linux conference, a discussion about whether to include a session on the GPL that protects the open source operating system quickly devolved in an angry rant as its founder piled in.
“I actually think we *should* talk about GPL enforcement at the kernel summit, because I think it’s an important issue,” Torvalds gently began, “but we should talk about it the way we talk about other issues: among kernel developers. No lawyers present unless they are in the capacity of a developer and maintainer of actual code, and in particular, absolutely not the Software Freedom Conservancy.”
“I personally think this arguing for lawyering has become a nasty festering disease, and the SFC and Bradley Kuhn has been the Typhoid Mary spreading the disease.”
“Let’s just cut through all the bullshit,” Torvalds continued. “The fact is, the people who have created open source and made it a success have been the developers doing work … The people who have *destroyed* projects have been lawyers that claimed to be out to ‘save’ those projects.”
“Some people do think I’m a grumpy old man,” he told university students in 2012. “I realize if you only see my flames and curses, and not when things go well, you will think I hate everybody.” He seemed to recognize he may have a personality flaw that he may need to work on, noting: “I’d like to be a nice person and curse less and encourage people to grow rather than telling them they are idiots.”
Before adding: “I’m sorry – I tried, it’s just not in me.”
[Ksummit-discuss] [CORE TOPIC] GPL defense issues
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/26/linus_torvalds_calls_own_lawyers_nasty_festering_disease/
Can I just pipe up and say “Amen!”
In fact, let me say that I actually think we *should* talk about GPL
enforcement at the kernel summit, because I think it’s an important
issue, but we should talk about it the way we talk about other issues:
among kernel developers. No lawyers present unless they are in the
capacity of a developer and maintainer of actual code, and in
particular, absolutely not the Software Freedom Conservancy.
I’m not aware of anybody but the lawyers and crazy people that were
happy about how the BusyBox situation ended up.
So I think the whole GPL enforcement issue is absolutely something
that should be discussed, but it should be discussed with the working
title
“Lawyers: poisonous to openness, poisonous to community, poisonous to
projects”.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Linus Torvalds’ lifestyle tips for hackers: be like me, work in a bathrobe, no showers before noon
Also be curious and constructive by working on Linux instead of breaking it
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/09/12/linus_torvalds_hacker_recruitment_aspiration/
In an on-stage interview with Linux Foundation founder and executive director Jim Zemline at the Open Source summit in Los Angeles on Monday, Torvalds admitted that “I have long since gotten over the fact that the UPS guy brings me a package from Amazon at 3:00PM and I am still in my bathrobe.”
Torvalds later invited hackers to adopt his lifestyle in two ways, first explaining that while coding a kernel in his bathrobe is far from glamorous he derives immense satisfaction from the many uses to which Linux is put. That makes his job fun, an outcome he feels is more likely to be attainable when working in technology than in other fields.
He therefore encouraged anyone looking for a career to pursue technology, but said he wants to make a special effort to recruit those who work on the dark side of tech.
Asked about the state of Linux security, he said the kernel development team does its very best and finds fuzzing tools are improving its potency. “We will always have bugs where we overlooked some detail and a smart person comes in and says ‘Hey, that is a bug I can take advantage of’.”
Even if the kernel team gets better at security, he said “absolute” security is impossible because someone will build a project on the kernel that introduces a vulnerability.
Hence his interest in recruiting more hackers.
“I am always very impressed by people who are attacking our code,” he said. “Sometimes I get the feeling these smart people are doing bad things, but I wish they were on our side because they are so smart and they could help us.”
Tomi Engdahl says:
Linus Torvalds Wants Attackers to Join Linux Kernel Development
http://www.eweek.com/enterprise-apps/linus-torvalds-wants-attackers-to-join-linux-kernel-development
Tomi Engdahl says:
https://siliconangle.com/2018/09/16/linus-torvalds-takes-time-linux-learn-empathy-skills/
Tomi Engdahl says:
So much info. After Years of Abusive E-mails, the Creator of Linux Steps Aside. What do you think? https://www.newyorker.com/science/elements/after-years-of-abusive-e-mails-the-creator-of-linux-steps-aside/amp
Tomi Engdahl says:
Linus Torvalds: ‘I’m not a programmer anymore’
https://www.zdnet.com/article/linus-torvalds-im-not-a-programmer-anymore/
In a discussion about Linux and programming, Linux’s founder, Linus Torvalds talks about what he does today and his own doubts about his work.
Tomi Engdahl says:
Linux: a Portable Operating System. Linus Torvalds’s Master’s Thesis (1997) [pdf] https://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/kutvonen/index_files/linus.pdf
Tomi Engdahl says:
Linus Torvalds turns 50 today. Wish him best for all great things he did and all decisions he made as a developer and as a man. Happy cake day!!!
https://www.facebook.com/126000117413375/posts/3134147536598603/
Tomi Engdahl says:
Linus Torvalds on why desktop Linux sucks
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Pzl1B7nB9Kc&feature=share
Also talks about how application distribution is not user-friendly.