Newsgroups: rec.audio.misc,rec.audio.pro,rec.audio.tech,rec.audio.opinion
Subject: Re: What size speaker wire for longer runs?
References: <[email protected]> 
Joseph Oberlander  writes:

> glw82664 wrote:
> 
> > I'm far from an audiophile and need help with some wiring.  I have an
> > old pioneer receiver that has an A/B switch.  I use B for satellite
> > speakers on my deck.  Until recently, they worked fine having run about
> > 30 feet of wire from where the receiver sits to the speakers.
> > Yesterday, I moved the receiver to a room farther away and had to
> > splice in about an extra 20 feet of wire.  There are actually three
> > splices in each wire now due to obstacles and such.  Now, when I turn
> > up the volume to even a moderate level the receiver stops transmiting
> > the signal and starts clicking.
> 
> Eek.  Three splices and you expect it to work properly?  

I would expect three splices to work properly when splices 
are properly done. Soldering, reliable crimp type connections, 
screw terminals and good quality connectors are proven ways 
to splice pices of cables together.

If you have mande bad splices, then things can break there. 

> Every time you splice a wire you loose 2-4db per splice.  

Where did you get those numbers? 
They do not hold true. 
A properly done wire splices make very little loss. 
It is avery small fraction of ohms in resistance, 
typically in milliohms or test of milliohms range.  
And the volume loss is definatly below fraction of decibel. 
The effect of properly made splice is less than the effect 
of few meters of speaker cable!

If the splice had 2-4 dB of loss, it would be a really bad 
splice and heat up very much in the use, because it would 
in this case loose around half of the power amplifier is 
sending out! Your claim is just proven NOT to be true!

> Three, plus
> the connectors on the end...  That's going to add up to a noticeable
> load increase on the receiver.  

Those will not add up any noticeable load on the receiver!

> Splicing bad.

Spilcing is bad for system reliabity. More splices you have 
in your system, the more propable is that some day one of them fails.
The other effects of properly done splices on audio speaker wires 
are neglectable!

> > I presume the extra wire I added is
> > the problem.  The wire I have been using, with success in other parts
> > of the house, is using a load of telephone line that I came in to for
> > free.  It has eight wires in each run so I split 4 positive and 4
> > negative.  It adds up to roughly 14 gauge.  I have checked, re-checked,
> > and re-checked again all the connections and they are correct so I
> > presume the runs are simply too long for the wire I am using.
> 
> I'd re-run it with two pieces of 12 gauge wire.  Those 4 pieces of
> telephone wire aren't 14 gauge, btw.  The look like it, but in terms
> of capacity, they are closer to 20 gauge at best.  This is a common
> problem people make, in fact, with cat-5 and simmilar wires.  It takes
> a lot of them together to equal what one (by then, with the insulation
> factored in) decent wire will do.  

This is true.

> Not that it isn't possible, but
> most people find it cumbersome compared to using plain 12 or 14 gauge
> stranded electrical wire.
> 
> Another option might be to get some Romex and run it under the house.
> Another option might be to go with self-powered speakers.  Then you'd
> just be sending a preamp signal which should be no problem.
> 
> (Or just get a small amp for the second room - the best solution of
> all, IMO)
> 

-- 
Tomi Engdahl (http://www.iki.fi/then/)
Take a look at my electronics web links and documents at 
http://www.epanorama.net/